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Old March 12, 2013, 09:14 PM   #26
maggys drawers
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I live about a 1/2 hour drive from Powder Valley. Not hard to stay stocked up when the panic isn't upon us all...and like Wild Willy already said-

"If you were loading 4 years ago and saw what happened and didn't put some extra supplies back you don't have any one to blame but yourself."

Amen, brother.
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Old March 12, 2013, 09:22 PM   #27
serf 'rett
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When bullets become trading stock and currency, some of those "hoarders" are going to appear to be genus' while the rest of us dumb bunnies are sitting around saying "Why didn't I prepare?" Just a thought.

I honestly can't understand bashing the LGS for running short of supplies. Isn't most everybody a little short of supplies? And why would you drive to the store when you could simply call and ask?

Me? I bought 1K primers and 2# of powder from a LGS when I first started three years ago and quickly swapped to online ordering because the economy of bulk purchaseing and the ability to get the things the LGS would never stock.
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Old March 12, 2013, 09:33 PM   #28
MarkGlazer
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Hoarding or not?

Newbie question: how much is "enough" in your personal stock that you don't worry about having so much explosive materials in your shop?

I'm back ordered for primer and powder, don't mind the wait as long as it shows up. Today, I did see one vendor post an estimated date of April 5 for resupply of primer. Hope that is a realistic target.

I would appreciate your thoughts. Thank you and look forward to "doing and learning."

Last edited by MarkGlazer; March 12, 2013 at 09:46 PM.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:21 PM   #29
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Smokeless powder doesn't explode. It burns. If you're worried about a fast burning fire I'd worry about a fire setting your powder on fire. If you're worried about a Kaboom don't. I knew a national pistol competitor that had over 100 Lbs. on hand most of the time. I keep in the neighborhood of 50. That's not just one type of powder. And some of it is probably 10 or 15 years old. And yes it will still work.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:22 PM   #30
Dodge DeBoulet
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LGS = worthless to the non-hoarding non-prepping public

There are also people that purchase large quantities for the savings on hazmat and shipping. Buying 15K of Federal LPP through Powder Valley brought my price down to $28 per 1,000. 24lb of WST came out to $18/lb. that's with hazmat, shipping and insurance.

Am I set for a while? You bet. Is it hoarding? Nope, because I'm shooting just as much as before. If I was truly hoarding, I wouldn't be shooting . . .
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:31 PM   #31
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DodgeDB, that's exactly why my stash is plentiful. It doesn't make sense not to order in bulk if you're paying the hazmat fee. I've got enough supplies to see me to next year, maybe longer. I do sympathize with noobs or those who practiced J.I.T. with their orders. (Just In Time).
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:55 PM   #32
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I think what Elder(I think that's what the TS's name was) is having a problem with is the people who are buying up EVERY component and NOT using them and have no plans on using it anytime soon. Those people I have a problem with.
One guy at one of my LGS said "This isn't Bartertown, this is AMERICA!" when we were talking about people hoarding supplies.
Thankfully my LGS are putting limits on how much their letting people buy at a time of certain products because of it. Otherwise ONE guy would have bought over 4000 rounds of .308 even though there were about 8 people in the store just to buy a couple hundred a piece.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:58 PM   #33
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Hoarding? How can anyone be a Hoarder if there is NOTHING to hoard
You can drive to any gun shop around me, they will all have NOTHING. The closest one to me has been killing off new shops the same month they open for years. Are there prices better? Heck NO...their customer service / attitude is the worst I've ever seen. But everyone snubs new guys because "they've" been there "forever"...they currently have about 14 guns TOTAL in the shop that once had over 400 different ones in stock at all times (not gander mountain 400, really 400 different models and types) NO ammunition and never even carried reloading supplys.

I bought the same amount of ammunition on a weekly basis when Pres. Hussein was "placed" in office as I did the previous 8 years. I don't shoot as much anymore, but it's not from a lack of ammo. My job is more demanding and I have a family of my own now. I'm not going to fault someone for buying what they can when they can get it if they'er desperate enough to pay for it. What is the difference between someone that had "vision" and put back extra 4 years ago, and someone who is running around from com-mart to com-mart buying everything they can get their hands on now? We are living in a time when people are diluted enough to think their Delton AR15 or crappy "AK" knock off is "worth" $1400 more than it was 5 years ago, people selling UMC 9mm for $48 per box.


I've got a huge problem with "gun collectors" though 11 years ago buying every nice surplus rifle that popped up just to hang them in a display cabinet or put in a safe because they'er too "nice" to shoot. But a lot of people wont complain about that First time it happened it was my 16th birthday. Dad said to go by the gun shop and pick something out before he got home from work. There were two identical (not consecutive) nice (I mean 9 out of 10 nice) 1903s sitting right next to each other. Been wanting one so bad I could taste it. went straight home to tell dad it's what I wanted and to give him the few hundred dollars I'd been saving for one, to add to what they were going to spend. Came right back with him and some ol gun miser had taken them BOTH to tuck away in a musty old safe not 10 minuets before we arrived. Same guy did it 10-12 more times over several more years...after he died and his wife came in the shop to sell his last couple pistols. She told the owner all the others had been turned over for $20, pizzas or some other Bull by his kids having never been fired..... flame off

FYI...Walmart is getting dirty with the ammunition. There was a thread about it on here earlier, so I ran over to ours just for giggles. I was surprised to see our walmart was doing to same thing. They had a goods pile of different pistol and rifle ammo under the register counter in sporting goods. When I questioned them about it, a manager came over....locked the doors and I was told I was "seeing things" and that those were knife and scope boxes. Ya, I wonder how good those green/yellow boxed Remington 30-30, and 230gr win-clean .45 APC scopes are That's who needs to be called on the carpet.

Last edited by BerdanSS; March 12, 2013 at 11:25 PM.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:45 PM   #34
maggys drawers
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They had a goods pile of different pistol and rifle ammo under the register counter in sporting goods. When I questioned them about it, a manager came over....locked the doors and I was told I was "seeing things" and that those were knife and scope boxes.
You don't suppose they were for his own private purchase, do you? Maybe taking them out and selling them for 2-3 times what he paid for them to some panic buyer ? He's the manager- the limits rules probably don't apply to him...just ask him if you don't believe it.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
FYI...Walmart is getting dirty with the ammunition. There was a thread about it on here earlier, so I ran over to ours just for giggles. I was surprised to see our walmart was doing to same thing. They had a goods pile of different pistol and rifle ammo under the register counter in sporting goods. When I questioned them about it, a manager came over....locked the doors and I was told I was "seeing things" and that those were knife and scope boxes. Ya, I wonder how good those green/yellow boxed Remington 30-30, and 230gr win-clean .45 APC scopes are That's who needs to be called on the carpet.
If that's true, you should have contacted THE store manager (not just any manager, or the "officer of the day" manager), and if you still didn't get any satisfaction write to the corporate office and name names.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:59 PM   #36
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I'm not claiming "shenanigans", but I had an interesting experience as well. I showed up at the local Wal-Mart on a Saturday morning, just to see if they had any .22lr. Nothing on the shelves, but there was another customer talking with the clerk, telling him "the computer says you have ten of the 325-round Federal Automatch bulk packs in stock - do you have it in the back? (I don't know where/how he was able to check their inventory - perhaps another location told him?)

The clerk said "No, everything we have is on the shelf." The customer kept pressing, and asked the clerk to go check. Sure enough, the clerk comes back rolling a cart with .40 S&W, 9mm, and the ten bulk packs of FAM. Maybe they were holding it back to sell on the side, maybe they were just lazy and didn't put the stock out overnight - I don't know. But that's been the only .22lr I've been able to buy since this whole mess started.
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:59 PM   #37
rajbcpa
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I became a hoarder in August of 2012.

I use the Internet and also visit LGS often. At LGS I buy what I can and not necessarily what I need. Right now, primers and powder are in very short supply. I can buy brass and lead cast bullets but only at elevated prices.

The choice is obvious; be a hoarder or wait-out the shortage which could take a year or more. Component prices probably will not return to pre-shortage levels.

Therefore, it does not make sense to wait it out.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:02 AM   #38
ScottRiqui
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The choice is obvious; be a hoarder or wait-out the shortage which could take a year or more. Component prices probably will not return to pre-shortage levels.

Therefore, it does not make sense to wait it out.
Component prices probably won't go all the way back down to pre-shortage levels, but they're going to drop down below what they are now - why pay inflated prices for components that you won't get around to using until after the shortage is over? (Unless you're talking about just buying what you can find at "pre-shortage" prices - that I could understand.)
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:22 AM   #39
rajbcpa
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Gasoline prices in NY are now at historic highs. They will come down but I buy now at elevated prices anyway.

Gasoline and ammo components have no elasticity of demand. These items are necessary for sustaining a modest living standard.

Hoarding is OK. It is simply removing items from the supply chain and storing them on your shelves at home. Yeh, it leads to higher prices and it leaves some people who do not hoard without supplies.

That is a consequence of capitalism but it is the only system that works.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:33 AM   #40
ScottRiqui
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Gasoline prices in NY are now at historic highs. They will come down but I buy now at elevated prices anyway.
Yes, but presumably, you're buying that inflated gas **as you need it**, rather than running around buying enough to fill a 2000-gallon storage tank in your back yard.

Someone who's paying inflated prices for ammo or components that he's not going to use until well after the shortage is over isn't making the "smart move" - in fact, it kind of makes him a chump.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:39 AM   #41
jimbob86
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What constitutes a "hoarder" or a "prepper"?

You say these things like they were a bad thing .....

If you plan on shooting much, you had best plan ahead a bit .....




You don't suppose the .gov is trying to lessen the supply/raise the cost/reduce the number of shooters by buying up ammunition in BILLION ROUND LOTS, do you? as a sid effect ot the above, you have casual, on box a month shooters getting mad at the guys who buy 10 boxes whenever it available ....... yet don't bat an eye when the .gov buys 1.4 BILLION rounds with their Grandchildren's money ....... If one were a Statist, it'd be a win/win/win!

How about this: Instead of throwing labels around, blaming others for your lack of foresight, you figure out what YOU can do top make sure you have ammo ...... do you handload? Do you conserve ammo when doing drills? DO YOU DRYFIRE?

You should watch YOUR lane. Take care of that, and then worry about what the .gov is requiring of you. What somebody else is doing with their private property should be way down the list of your priorities,
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:42 AM   #42
jimbob86
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As for "inflated prices" ..... that's a function of inflation of the currency.

Price ammo in gold, and it'd be dirt cheap compared to 20 years ago.

They are not printing gold out of thin air.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:51 AM   #43
ScottRiqui
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Sorry - by "inflated prices", I mean the price increases that are a direct result of the current shortage. Primers didn't double in price in the last four months because of regular currency inflation.

I don't know if your post was directed at me, but I'm in fine shape, ammo-wise. I reload everything I shoot (except for .22lr, obviously). I'm on the backorder list for a set of 9mm dies, and my first 9mm bullets should arrive later this week, but that's because prior to last month, I didn't own anything chambered in that caliber.

I haven't called anyone a "hoarder" or a "prepper" - I'm just pointing out that if you're stocking up more than a year or so in advance, and paying "shortage-elevated" prices in order to do so, that doesn't make much sense unless you truly believe that the current shortage is *never* going to end.
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Old March 13, 2013, 01:30 AM   #44
Lost Sheep
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Ammo, Guns, Canned Goods, Gasoline, Toilet Paper.

If you practice a "just in time" buying philosophy, you will be occasionally at the mercy of market shortages (real or artificial).

The dividing line between being a hoarder who is part of the creation of an artificial shortage or just being prepared for the ups and downs of supply availability is a judgement call. A year's supply of toilet paper? Week's supply of drinking water?

My city's disaster planning suggests we be prepared to subsist on stored food, water and medical supplies for at least 3 days for a disruption in supply lines. My opinion is that is WAY to short. Does that make me a prepper?

If there were a total shutoff of ammo, primers, powder and ball, I could still shoot for 4-5 months before I ran out of rimfire and centerfire metalllic ammo. Longer if I cut down my shooting schedule. But Skeet and Trap would see me out in two range trips. (I don't load shotshells.) My shooting buddy would be out of shotshells in one.

In short, what you have as a "hoard" or simply as a "cushion" is a judgement call.

Conjugate this adjective:

I am unique.
YOU (my friend) are strange.
HE (the jerk) is a wierdo.

Or this one:

I hold firm views.
YOU (my friend) are stubborn
HE (the jerk) is pig-headed.

I am lubricated
YOU (my friend) are intoxicated
HE (the jerk) is blotto

I am prepared for emergencies
YOU (my friend) are paranoid
HE (the jerk) is a raving lunatic

Point of view.

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Old March 13, 2013, 02:28 AM   #45
Hammerhead
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Seems like those who were not prepared for shortages like call those who were 'hoarders'.

Sour grapes.
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:43 AM   #46
zincwarrior
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When bullets become trading stock and currency, some of those "hoarders" are going to appear to be genus' while the rest of us dumb bunnies are sitting around saying "Why didn't I prepare?" Just a thought.
Considering that happens the day after the Zombie Apocalypse, I'm not real worried about it.
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Old March 13, 2013, 07:22 AM   #47
eldermike
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I have reloaded now going on 30 years. I am not out of reloading supplies, I am out of Bullseye. When the zombies come I will shoot them with a slower burning powder.
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:01 AM   #48
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Regarding the incident at walmart, I didn't contact any manager. SHE (the manager) came at the request of the lying associate, locked the cabinets and supported the department associates. She WAS the store Director. I worked in retail sales management for years. The most pointless thing you can do is go over the SD to corporate district managers. I'm not angry or deep down in me TRULY surprised by the fact that they were indeed doing it, I mean.....it's wal-mart, what do you expect?

I was just surprised that a claim made on the internet was true.



maggys drawers your close, but I don't think it's anyone's private purchase stash. I thinks it's the stores ammunition stock they hide when it comes in and more of "ya want 9mm? I got 9mm....I'll sell you a box through the register at store price but it'll cost you $10"

Last edited by BerdanSS; March 13, 2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:35 AM   #49
Strafer Gott
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I saw my local Sportsman' wharehouse get in 16 lbs. of Bluedot, you guessed it,all of 2 8lb. cans! The first guy at the counter left with it. I would rather they ordered one pound cans, but there we have it. Wait for the next truck.
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:52 AM   #50
TennJed
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LGS = worthless to the non-hoarding non-prepping public

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike View Post
I have reloaded now going on 30 years. I am not out of reloading supplies, I am out of Bullseye. When the zombies come I will shoot them with a slower burning powder.
Could you clarify as to why you not having Bullseye is the LGS's fault?
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