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Old March 4, 2013, 02:29 PM   #1
Rabbitt
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1911 Full Length Giude Rods vs not

I have seen a few discussion on the FLGR vs not having it. I guess I am not really sure either way which is the way to go.

Does it make a difference?
How so?

I am not starting to try to start a camp war just wanting some reasons or opinions why one or the other.

If I am understanding things correctly it was originally the short guide rod? Why the change.
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Old March 4, 2013, 02:35 PM   #2
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Quote:
Does it make a difference?
No.

Quote:
If I am understanding things correctly it was originally the short guide rod.
Correct.

Quote:
Why the change.
"What is it for?"

"To sell, of course."
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Old March 4, 2013, 02:38 PM   #3
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Tuner is correct. Full-length guide rods exist so companies can make money selling full-length guide rods. The original claim was that they'd increase accuracy and/or reliability, but I have never seen any evidence of that.

As far as I can tell, they only make the gun harder to strip and reassemble.
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Old March 4, 2013, 02:45 PM   #4
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It does add a bit of weight to the gun, right where you want it to help control muzzle flip. I have a .45 and a .38 Super that are set up as alike as possible, and the Super has th FLGR in it, as the smaller-diameter barrel weighs less than the .45 barrel, so the FLGR makes the weight and balance more nearly alike.
FLGRs made out of tungsten add another couple of ounces, if you like some more weight out front.
If you have a rimfire conversion for your centerfire gun, equipping both the a FLGR makes for much easier swapping between the two, as the uppers remain self-contained units when removed from the frame.
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Old March 4, 2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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Tom. You say it makes it harder to strip and reassemble. Would you explain that a bit more.

I have 1911's in both configuration. I don't see where one is harder than the other. I am more used to the FLGR so stumbled a bit on the short one as the spring didn't come out the way I expected it to.
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Old March 4, 2013, 05:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
As far as I can tell, they only make the gun harder to strip and reassemble.
My Colt XSE with a FLGR is no more difficult to strip and reassemble than a 1911 with a standard guide rod.

That said, I do not think a FLGR is a necessity nor a hindrance. The 1911s I've shot with and without them seem to be pretty equal as far as reliability or accuracy goes. The ones with a FLGR "feel" a little slicker when fondling/racking the slide, but I haven't seen any other real benefits.
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Old March 4, 2013, 06:16 PM   #7
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A FLGR can add extra steps to take down. That was certainly the case with my Springfield TRP and additionally it required an Allen wrench.

As far as function and benefit. I didn't see any improvement in function or any perceived benefit other than making takedown more difficult.

I quickly replaced it with a standard GI rod and plug. I am much happier with the replacement. In my opinion, a FLGR is simply a gimmick.

If I were you and the gun I wanted had a FlGR, I'd buy the gun and replace it. It it didn't have one, that is even better.
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Old March 4, 2013, 06:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Tom. You say it makes it harder to strip and reassemble. Would you explain that a bit more.
With a standard plunger, I can press down and turn the bushing. With most FLGR's, I need a wrench.
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:33 PM   #9
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"If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck"
Tuner is not only an M1911 authority but he has the gift of patience.
Thank you.
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:43 PM   #10
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My experience is limited to two 1911's. My RIA Tactical has a full length and my Ruger has the stubby one. As long as you remove the spring/plug first there's not much difference. But when you prefer to remove the slide and then break down the spring/plug & barrel its a WORLD of difference.

For whatever reason I think the full length guide rod is simpler by a tad.
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:57 PM   #11
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Depending on the FLGR, you might need an allen wrench to unscrew them (Springfield Armory), but you probably will need a tool to properly depress the recoil spring plug (those ones for FLGRs are sharp and cut into the thumb).

I've yet to see any issue fixed by a FLGR, but I have seen some problems that one will make worse. For example, at my last visit we discovered my father's RIA will NOT chamber my reloads*, and jammed it up but good. I had to press the front of the slide against a shelf to remove the round... with a FLGR that isn't happening.

*Beats me why. They're full length resized in a Lee Factory Crimp Die and run perfectly in my three 1911s. Seems that RIA just hates anything that isn't genuine factory ammo... it even hates factory reloads. Heck, it even hates the stock magazines. Weird gun.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:29 PM   #12
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I am glad I stumbled upon this thread. I was just about to pull the trigger on a full length guide rod for my 1911-22. I don't think I will spend the money now, seems it is not needed.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:41 PM   #13
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No difference...personal preference.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:48 PM   #14
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Want to need a tool to field strip or not?
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Want to need a tool to field strip or not?
None of my FLGR guns require a tool.
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:03 AM   #16
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FLGR

Quote:
None of my FLGR guns require a tool.
None of your pistols have a true FLGR. They have the compromise FLGR that will allow the bushing to clear the end of the rod. The real ones are flush with the face of the plug and require removal before the bushing can move.

IMO, having to carry tools around in order to field-strip my pistol...allen and bushing wrench...just doesn't sit well with me. I like being able to field-strip and reassemble in 8-10 seconds and 12-15 seconds respectively...the way that JMB and the US Army truly intended.

During the trials, there were several officers on the board who didn't like the Colt, stating that it was too big and too heavy, despite its having just trounced the Savage in the accuracy and reliability phase. When it came time to demonstrate the ease of service in the field portion, the Savage rep unrolled his tool set and started. Browning stepped up to the table and had the Colt apart and back together...without tools...before the other guy could get his pistol apart. Even the most vocal opponents realized that it was time to sit down and shut up.

Allow me to be blunt.

Of all the bells and whistles that have been hung on modern 1911 pistols, the FLGR ranks among the silliest and most useless. It doesn't do anything any better or even as well as the standard spring guide, which brings us back to the base question:

"What is it for?"
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:08 AM   #17
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1911Tuner, why do some manufacturers bother to make FLGR, then? I can't imagine someone engineering this part for no reason?

But I own all short guide rod 1911s, I've never had a problem with them shooting inaccurately.

My favorite innovation over the GI model, tho, has to be the BGS. I only own one GI and it bites me sometimes.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:08 AM   #18
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Quote:
1911Tuner, why do some manufacturers bother to make FLGR, then? I can't imagine someone engineering this part for no reason?
He already answered that. They make 'em because folk are willing to buy 'em.

I bought one too. Now it's in one of the misc parts boxes somewhere in my garage....

Probably right beside the .400 Cor-Bon barrel & spring.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:13 AM   #19
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"1911Tuner, why do some manufacturers bother to make FLGR, then? I can't imagine someone engineering this part for no reason?"

Dude, for the same reason some manufacturers make single ply toilet paper -- People buy it.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:19 AM   #20
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Why?

Quote:
1911Tuner, why do some manufacturers bother to make FLGR, then?
It goes back to the question:

"What is it for?" (Things are presumably made for a reason.)

All too often, the answer is:

"To sell, of course!"

Like heavy-duty recoil springs and plastic thingies sold with the presumption of saving the frame or some other such nonsense, marketing 101 is in full effect.

To wit:

First, convince the buyer that he needs it, and then sell it to him.
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:40 AM   #21
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Tom Servo and 1911Tuner. Thank you both for your insight and comments. You do make a lot of good points and answered my question(s).

I appreciate everyone who joined in and made it an interesting conversation.

Always nice to learn from others.
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Old March 5, 2013, 12:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Want to need a tool to field strip or not?
My Colt Government XSE has a FLGR. My brother's S&W SW1911 has a FLGR.

Neither needs a tool to field strip.

The FLGR is just a non-issue in my experience. As far as I know, it's useless, and I didn't seek out a particular model because it had the FLGR.

But since it's been a non-issue, I've seen no need to switch it out. YMMV.
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Old March 5, 2013, 11:30 PM   #23
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Ed Brown used to only offer pistols with the standard "GI" length guide rod. Apparently some (uninformed) buyers thought a top end 1911 should come with a FLGR. So, Brown started putting a FLGR into his top end product, the Classic Custom. He's also glad to sell you FLGRs. If the Eskimos want to buy ice, why not sell it to them?

I've got three 1911s with FLGRs, none of them carry guns. I've got some standard length guide rods around somewhere but just haven't gotten around to changing them out. Not a huge deal, just unnecessary and slightly more of a hassle.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:07 AM   #24
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FLGR

I put an EFK FireDragon Dual Spring in my RIA Govt about a year ago. I've chased the plug a couple of times. I don't use the tool. It dose put more weight up front, and the top can come off in one piece. It does make a diff. Mine has an extra spring internally that smooths things out a little. It's one of those inexpensive up-grades that occasionally makes a difference.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:36 AM   #25
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For the doubters, why not call Springfield and ask why they put them in and report back to us.
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