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Old March 14, 2013, 02:22 PM   #1
glock_country
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Non HP self defense ammo

Hi!

As the title says, I´m searching for a non hp ammo, in 9mm Luger for self defense purposes.
Here in Austria, you only get HP´s for hunting and sport shooting purposes. I know, it´s really strange, but this is fact, and I don´t want to discuss the stupid gun laws in our country.

What from the following types of ammo would YOU choose:

100grs. Fiocchi JSP-Flat (very hot loaded, and the ammo of our police)
93grs. Fiocchi EMB (expanding, non hp bullet, concerned about penetration depth)
124grs. FMJ round nouse (for example Fiocchi, Geco, etc...)

My handuns are: Ruger LC9, Glock 19 and 26.

Or have you any other suggestions??

Thank you very much for your replies!

Greetings
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Old March 14, 2013, 02:29 PM   #2
christian812
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I live in Belgium and we must have similar laws :-(

I've tested all these ammo and by far, the best is GECO 124 gr.

(Sig P226 - H&K P2000 - Browning HP)
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Old March 14, 2013, 02:48 PM   #3
glock_country
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Thank you for your reply!

Do you have strict gun laws in belgium? Is it possible to get a concealed carry permit in the home of one of the greatest gun makers in the world (FN)?
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:14 PM   #4
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They don't consider the Fiocchi EMB to be a hollow point? I mean, I guess it is technically filled in. For SD purposes, I really think ammo that is designed to expand is going to be your best bet. Keep the round nose FMJ stuff for the range.

Federal also makes an expanding FMJ round under the brand Guard Dog...though not sure if that's available to you guys, it might be worth looking into.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:26 PM   #5
jrothWA
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Can you get ..

the Fiocchi 124gr FMJ-FP (flat point) load, it uses the Hornady bullet?

I use that for bowling pin shoot in the Mid-West.

The first one sound interesting for possible use, but need to see how the firearm functions with it.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:32 PM   #6
Inazone
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Although I haven't used the Fiocchi JSP you described, I've shot their 124gr flat-nose FMJ in a Steyr M9-A1 with no issues. Considering the number of .45 owners who post about using flat-nosed FMJ for defensive ammo, I see no reason not to use the Fiocchi JSP if your guns function reliably with it. Like Gaerek, I'm surprised that JSP is allowed when JHP is not, but laws can be funny like that.

I've read that the energy transfer of a flat-nosed bullet is greater than that of a comparable round-nosed bullet, which might make it a better defensive choice, but on the other hand, I've read elsewhere that the improvement isn't really appreciable. However, if JHP is not allowed, I'd consider any improvement to cheap FMJ to be worth trying. Personally, I use Fiocchi XTP 124gr JHP for my carry gun, and practice with Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 124 flat-nosed FMJ . . . when I can get my hands it.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:43 PM   #7
Will Beararms
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At least you can own a handgun. It could be worse.
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Old March 14, 2013, 04:02 PM   #8
manta49
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Quote:
As the title says, I´m searching for a non hp ammo, in 9mm Luger for self defense purposes.
Here in Austria, you only get HP´s for hunting and sport shooting purposes
FMJ rounds have being doing the job for over 100 years i would be happy to use them for self defence.

PS Are you allowed to carry for self defence in Austria. ?

Last edited by manta49; March 14, 2013 at 04:10 PM.
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Old March 14, 2013, 05:03 PM   #9
Dragline45
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Have you ever looked into EFMJ rounds, otherwise known as expanding full metal jacket?



Not sure if you can order from midway but federal makes such a round in 9mm.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/468...cket-box-of-20
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Old March 14, 2013, 05:39 PM   #10
lyodbraun
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the Fiocchi EMB is the expanding mono block round ?? if so I have tested it and it works pretty good, its a solid copper bullet .. also the Federal Guard Dog or Expanding Full metal jacket works decent also ..
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:17 AM   #11
glock_country
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@manta49

Yes, it´s possible to carry a weapon, under certain circumstances.
For example police officers get a concealed carry permit.

@lyodbraun

Yes, this is the expanding mono block round. In Austria it is used by our "SWAT" team Cobra.

@all

Thank you for your informative replies!!
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:27 AM   #12
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I would use the 100 grain Fiocchi JSP.
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Old March 15, 2013, 01:19 AM   #13
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I wonder if the 100 grain Fiocchi might be a tad too warm for regular use in the LC9. I wouldn't be concerned about the Glocks. Just a thought.
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Old March 15, 2013, 01:56 AM   #14
glock_country
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I´ve shot them through my LC9 and the recoil is really powerful.
But when shooting the 100grs Fiocchis I´m not concerned about insufficient penetration.

It´s our duty ammo for police service, and I have never seen a malfunction with them. So I know they are 100% reliable.
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Old March 15, 2013, 02:30 AM   #15
Pond, James Pond
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I, too, am prohibited HPs.

I opted for 158gr Fiocchi Subsonics.

Perhaps my logic is not good, but I followed the reasoning that 45ACP is popular because it is slow and heavy, so I looked for the same in 9mm. I have only ever seen FMJs for sale here: the only flat points I have seen are .38 and .357 etc, not 9mm Para.

As it happens I rarely carry and normally it is a .38spl. However, I decided that I'd at least have an SD option for my Glock, too, even if I rarely use it as a carry option.
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Old March 15, 2013, 07:10 AM   #16
christian812
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Getting a CCW permit in Belgium ... forget it
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:20 PM   #17
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Frangibles...

A frangible or exotic round may be legal in your area. I'd avoid the Federal Guard Dog line. A YouTuber posted a detailed T&E with Guard Dog 9mm(9mm Luger) rounds with - results.
Corbon PowRball or Glaser Silver type Safety Slugs may work. They feed & cycle well in most modern pistols.
MagSafe is a well made brand. It's produced in central Florida.
DRT is a little known frangible but they are well made. Avoid the ExtremeShock USA line. That firm is MIA & the quality is sub standard.

CF
www.magsafeonline.com www.shopcorbon.com www.natchezss.com www.cabelas.com www.drtammo.com
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:28 PM   #18
Gaerek
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Non HP self defense ammo

What makes guard dog not great but Glasers good? Glasers do a great job doing the frangible thing, but their penetration is a joke.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:35 PM   #19
ClydeFrog
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Glaser silvers...

I'd get the Silver version of Glaser. It's well made & powerful.
The YouTube clip shows how the Guard Dog works with FBI protocol tests.

Nuff said.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:43 PM   #20
tahunua001
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believe it or not there are areas of the US that don't allow HPs, I also would like to avoid the topic of those stupid laws..

I'm not sure if you are allowed to or are even capable of reloading but there should be soft point bullets, no copper jacket over the tip which allows expansion.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:56 PM   #21
Gaerek
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Non HP self defense ammo

How do Glasers stand up the FBI tests? Not trying to be snarky, just honestly curious. It seems to me that Guard Dogs should work better than Glasers, but of course I don't know for sure.
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Old March 15, 2013, 01:11 PM   #22
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I'd avoid the Glasers and other frangible ammunition for defense work. If a filled hollow point load will work then the Corbon Powerball loads and the Hornady Critical Duty. If it can't have any form of HP then the Federal EFMJ or Guard Dog (pretty much the same bullet with very minor changes) would be a better then nothing choice.
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Old March 15, 2013, 02:18 PM   #23
manta49
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Quote:
Yes, it´s possible to carry a weapon, under certain circumstances.
For example police officers get a concealed carry permit.
Thanks for the reply. I was referring to civilians i assumed that the police took their firearms home with them. I would think if you are not allowed expanding ammo that would include all expanding ammo even those dressed up as FMJ rounds.
Like the ones bellow for example.
Have you ever looked into EFMJ rounds, otherwise known as expanding full metal jacket?
Are you allowed to use a larger caliber than 9MM. ? PS Here 9mm is the largest caliber allowed to use for self defence.

Last edited by manta49; March 15, 2013 at 02:27 PM.
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Old March 15, 2013, 02:35 PM   #24
KyJim
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The prohibition against hollow points --- another over-thought law with possible adverse consequences. Over penetration is more an issue when FMJ rounds are used which increases the risk of injury to persons other than the intended target.
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Old March 15, 2013, 04:03 PM   #25
manta49
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Quote:
Over penetration is more an issue when FMJ rounds are used which increases the risk of injury to persons other than the intended target.
You can look at that a few ways. You are probably more likely to hit someone with the rounds that you miss your intended target with. So if expanding ammo is more lethal then you going to do more damage if you hit someone accidentally.
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