Pin Shooting

Trez · January 1, 2001, 03:02 PM

Greetings from South Africa. I've recently started Pin Shooting. It's relatively new in SA and i have allot to learn. Like the best suited weapons, callibers and loads. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Robert the41MagFan · January 1, 2001, 04:12 PM

Whether you want to shoot revolver or semi automatic class, the 45 acp seems to be the caliber of choice. And use the widest HP you can get your hands on. They bite into the pins better.

Robert

Kingcreek · January 1, 2001, 04:22 PM

45acp on the full pins.
Until our club folded, we had a great time shooting "pin heads" with .22cal pistols. (cut the pins off at the shoulder)

beemerb · January 1, 2001, 04:51 PM

ANother fun thing is use 148gr full wads out of a 38 spec.It is surpriseing how far they will knock pins.

Captain · January 1, 2001, 06:04 PM

I like any large bore auto or revolver for pins. I have used 45 ACPs in autos and revolvers with very good success. If you will be using lead bullets, then go with the 255 SWC or a 230 FP. Drive them pretty fast ( @ 850 to 900 FPS). 44s and 41s work well also, but oftem overpenetrate if the velocity is too high. Jacketed hollwpoints work real well if you can get them cheaply. I like the 200 gr JHPs in 45 ACP. Driven at 1050, they work really well.

I have used a very hot 38 special for a while, but the recoil was pretty stiff and I'm sure the loads were way over 38 spl pressures. I used a N or L frame S&W with them. The bullet was a 200 gr FP at 12 FPS! I shot my fastest table with these...3.0 !!! I was even impressed! LOL

Good luck, I always had a great time shooting pins!

Captain · January 1, 2001, 06:06 PM

LOL, the 200 gr 38 was at 1200 FPS! Sorry!

JoeHatley · January 1, 2001, 06:07 PM

I've got a S&W 625 V-comp in .45 acp, with a Lepould/Gilmore red dot sight. It's close to perfect for pins.

Good Luck...

Joe

Big Al · January 3, 2001, 12:51 AM

wasn't this about a P-32 to begin with? :-)

January 3, 2001, 07:46 AM

Revolver--M625 Smith
Semi--G31 glock

Norm Lee · January 3, 2001, 06:31 PM

Hi Trez:

Welcome to pin shooting. I still think it's about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Tell us a little about the pins you use and the distance you shoot from. Do you use the Second Chance style pin set?

For autos, I favour the .45 ACP and use a 235 grain SWC bullet called a pinbuster designed and sold by R&R bullets. Anything else is a compromise IMHO. But 245 and 255 gr. bullets of the same style will work in a pinch. Flat nose or HP in the 230 gr. range are workable but the swc is such a good shape for this task that the 200 gr H&G may be a better choice.
The .40 S&W can be made to work and seems to do all right with bullets of 180 grains and up. I have seen fine work done with 200 and 220 gr. bullets but there are some precautions which must be taken with regard to bullet setback and careful powder metering as this is a high pressure low volume cartrudge.

For revolvers, the undisputed king for many years was the 625 S&W in .45ACP using moon clips. The .44 Spl is a good choice and so is .45 Colt.
But the high cap 7 and 8 shot 357s have a huge advantage in the extra rounds available and the 230 gr wadcutter makes it a viable choice.

Have fun.

Cheers,

Norm

mtnbkr · January 3, 2001, 08:34 PM

Where do you find 230gr WC bullets for the 357mag?? What kind of load data do you use? Not that I want to use them, just interested...

Chris

beemerb · January 3, 2001, 10:06 PM

I aallso want to know where to get 230 gr for the 357.Might be fun to work a load up.

Norm Lee · January 4, 2001, 03:34 PM

The .357 "pinbusters" are available from:

R&R Bullets
Address: 909 HOSPITAL DR CRAWFORD, NE 69339.
Voice:1--308-665-2585***308-665-1890***800-665-6572 Fax: 1-308-665-1372.

Some folks like Blue Dot for this bullet. I used VVN 350 from Vihta Vuori. Here's a copy of a note I sent after the work up:

OK Finally got enough trips to the range to finish the load development and I did say I'd get back to y'all when it was done just in case anyone was interested. The mission was to work up a load to drive the .357 R&R Pinbuster LWC with Vihta Vuori VVN 350 powder. I started with a very conservative 4.2 grains and worked up from there. In all instances I used Winchester Western .38 Spl brass, Federal no. 100 (small pistol) primers and roll crimped into the groove cast into the bullet. At 4.2 grains, velocity was 726 fps. Pleasant to shoot and very accurate at the test distance which was 10 yards. At 5.0 grains velocity bumped up to 845 fps; 854 at 5.3 grains. The load I settled on was 5.6 grains of powder for 900 fps Power Factor 207. Finished the experiment with 5.8 grains pushing the bullet to 922 fps. At this point, leading was beginning to be a factor and the earliest signs of pressure manifested themselves during extraction of the empties. Data were taken at 7 feet with a Shooting Chrony. The gun was a 6 inch 686 with dual traps by Mag-Na-Port. Extreme spread in velocity was low, standard deviation ran from 5 to 8 fps. Accuracy was excellent but we were not motivated to extend the range for a better assessment as this is strictly a bowling pin round (25 feet). We ran one series with Moly-Kote instead of conventional lube. Velocity was lower but the difference was probably not statistically significant. Accuracy was the same. I'm not sure there's any real advantage but it is early yet and there is a deal of testing yet to be done. Will be trying some in 9mm and .45ACP as well. A companion load for the pinbuster turns out to be a 158 gr. SWC over 3.4 gr. Of Unique. Same POI at 10 yds and is soft and easy to shoot. Very accurate and has been a dandy on the falling plates. A benefit was that we could use the same OAL and not have to change the seating die. This bullet is also from R&R. Velocity is 680 fps.

Hope this wasn't too long. Cheers, Norm

Richard · January 5, 2001, 03:19 AM

Trez, I like a 1911A1 45acp with 200gr lswc bullets over 6.1gr of Win 231 with CCI primers. When the pins collect a lot of lead switch over to the 44 Magnum. It doesn't matter how heavy the pins get the 44 magnum will move them. Regards, Richard

Marko · January 5, 2001, 02:25 PM

Where does a person get the pins? Do the bowling alleys sell the old ones or do you have a source for new ones? Will a 9mm para work for this with 147's or 158's? Thanks in advance.

TheBluesMan · January 5, 2001, 05:09 PM

My local gun shop buys used pins from the local bowling alleys. They sell them there for .75 each.

The first time I tried pin shooting was in my backyard. I was using a 9mm with FMJ bullets. I couldn't figure out why the pins weren't falling consistently; I *knew* I was hitting them.

After unloading a 13 rd. magazine into six pins and only knocking down 4 or 5 of them I found out why. The FMJ projectile was bouncing off the pins. No penetration whatsoever.

I switched to 185 gr. HP and had much better success.

Norm Lee · January 5, 2001, 07:48 PM

Hi Marko:

If you can make th eright contacts, the alleys will often give you their old pins. Disposal can pose a problem to them so sometimes they welcome a willing trash hauler. The mechanics sometimes see a chance to make some "pin money" and then you may have to shell out. Going rate seems to be $1.00 to $3.00 per box of 10.

You can shoot pins with a nine. I did it for a couple of years. You get NO credit for anything other than a dead center hit and I'm pretty sure that some of them were able to ignore those. It will improve your marksmanship. (Or elevate your blood pressure) On a two tier table, you can test effectiveness of a load by checking to see if you can move a pin from the upper tier to the ground without contacting the lower on the way.

If you are up against rough or uneven tables or ones not well leveled, the nine probably won't do the work. I really hate to say that.

Best medicine I found was a 147 SWC from D&J atop enough slow powder to get 1120 fps. That's right near the new IPSC major power floor!

Cheers,

Norm

Norm Lee · January 5, 2001, 08:04 PM

Hi Marko:

If you can make th eright contacts, the alleys will often give you their old pins. Disposal can pose a problem to them so sometimes they welcome a willing trash hauler. The mechanics sometimes see a chance to make some "pin money" and then you may have to shell out. Going rate seems to be $1.00 to $3.00 per box of 10.

You can shoot pins with a nine. I did it for a couple of years. You get NO credit for anything other than a dead center hit and I'm pretty sure that some of them were able to ignore those. It will improve your marksmanship. (Or elevate your blood pressure) On a two tier table, you can test effectiveness of a load by checking to see if you can move a pin from the upper tier to the ground without contacting the lower on the way.

If you are up against rough or uneven tables or ones not well leveled, the nine probably won't do the work. I really hate to say that.

Best medicine I found was a 147 SWC from D&J atop enough slow powder to get 1120 fps. That's right near the new IPSC major power floor!

Cheers,

Norm

Hardin · January 6, 2001, 12:16 AM

the latter require very close to perfect hits. The old "pin-grabber" hp's in .45 were the right idea. The effect sought is to enlarge the effective target area, making it, say, 3 1/2" x 7", as vs 2 1/2" by 5". That lets you go a bit faster across the table, and still clear the pins off of the back. In any case, only 5 shots is fast enough to win, if a pin goes down but not off, i just stop the run, saving time and frustration. Some pins have hollow centers, and these only work well when turned sideways.Something about how the layers of wood grain and glue resist the slug, i guess, I could never get pins to stand up to more than 6-8 hits, so practice was too expensive. Also, hits can make embedded slugs fly around, and low hits on the table can make for dangerous frags. The target area is too small to represent defensive shooting, the range too long. It is like engaging men at 25 m, a silly thing to attempt with a pistol, standing in the open, against 5 opponents. If I were interested today, I would just practice on Bianchi p 8" plates, set 25 yds distant. 4 secs plus is a LONG time to just stand there exposed to THAT many enemies' firing, don't you think? Better pray that all they have is RG 22 snub revolvers and shoot gangsta style! :-)

January 1, 2001, 06:07 PM	#7
JoeHatley Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 1999 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,135	I've got a S&W 625 V-comp in .45 acp, with a Lepould/Gilmore red dot sight. It's close to perfect for pins. Good Luck... Joe __________________ Go NRA

January 3, 2001, 12:51 AM	#8
Big Al Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2000 Location: West "By God" Virginny, USA Posts: 364	wasn't this about a P-32 to begin with? :-) __________________ Glock 19 - "The Tool" S&W 629 Classic - "The Cannon" KelTec P32 - "The Backup" Ruger 22/45 - "The Toy" "Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam

January 3, 2001, 06:31 PM	#10
Norm Lee Member Join Date: January 3, 2001 Location: Nassau Bay Posts: 76	Pin Shooting Hi Trez: Welcome to pin shooting. I still think it's about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Tell us a little about the pins you use and the distance you shoot from. Do you use the Second Chance style pin set? For autos, I favour the .45 ACP and use a 235 grain SWC bullet called a pinbuster designed and sold by R&R bullets. Anything else is a compromise IMHO. But 245 and 255 gr. bullets of the same style will work in a pinch. Flat nose or HP in the 230 gr. range are workable but the swc is such a good shape for this task that the 200 gr H&G may be a better choice. The .40 S&W can be made to work and seems to do all right with bullets of 180 grains and up. I have seen fine work done with 200 and 220 gr. bullets but there are some precautions which must be taken with regard to bullet setback and careful powder metering as this is a high pressure low volume cartrudge. For revolvers, the undisputed king for many years was the 625 S&W in .45ACP using moon clips. The .44 Spl is a good choice and so is .45 Colt. But the high cap 7 and 8 shot 357s have a huge advantage in the extra rounds available and the 230 gr wadcutter makes it a viable choice. Have fun. Cheers, Norm

January 4, 2001, 03:34 PM	#13
Norm Lee Member Join Date: January 3, 2001 Location: Nassau Bay Posts: 76	pin shooting--lead logs for the .357 The .357 "pinbusters" are available from: R&R Bullets Address: 909 HOSPITAL DR CRAWFORD, NE 69339. Voice:1--308-665-2585*308-665-1890*800-665-6572 Fax: 1-308-665-1372. Some folks like Blue Dot for this bullet. I used VVN 350 from Vihta Vuori. Here's a copy of a note I sent after the work up: OK Finally got enough trips to the range to finish the load development and I did say I'd get back to y'all when it was done just in case anyone was interested. The mission was to work up a load to drive the .357 R&R Pinbuster LWC with Vihta Vuori VVN 350 powder. I started with a very conservative 4.2 grains and worked up from there. In all instances I used Winchester Western .38 Spl brass, Federal no. 100 (small pistol) primers and roll crimped into the groove cast into the bullet. At 4.2 grains, velocity was 726 fps. Pleasant to shoot and very accurate at the test distance which was 10 yards. At 5.0 grains velocity bumped up to 845 fps; 854 at 5.3 grains. The load I settled on was 5.6 grains of powder for 900 fps Power Factor 207. Finished the experiment with 5.8 grains pushing the bullet to 922 fps. At this point, leading was beginning to be a factor and the earliest signs of pressure manifested themselves during extraction of the empties. Data were taken at 7 feet with a Shooting Chrony. The gun was a 6 inch 686 with dual traps by Mag-Na-Port. Extreme spread in velocity was low, standard deviation ran from 5 to 8 fps. Accuracy was excellent but we were not motivated to extend the range for a better assessment as this is strictly a bowling pin round (25 feet). We ran one series with Moly-Kote instead of conventional lube. Velocity was lower but the difference was probably not statistically significant. Accuracy was the same. I'm not sure there's any real advantage but it is early yet and there is a deal of testing yet to be done. Will be trying some in 9mm and .45ACP as well. A companion load for the pinbuster turns out to be a 158 gr. SWC over 3.4 gr. Of Unique. Same POI at 10 yds and is soft and easy to shoot. Very accurate and has been a dandy on the falling plates. A benefit was that we could use the same OAL and not have to change the seating die. This bullet is also from R&R. Velocity is 680 fps. Hope this wasn't too long. Cheers, Norm

January 5, 2001, 03:19 AM	#14
Richard Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 1,305	45acp and 44 Magnum Trez, I like a 1911A1 45acp with 200gr lswc bullets over 6.1gr of Win 231 with CCI primers. When the pins collect a lot of lead switch over to the 44 Magnum. It doesn't matter how heavy the pins get the 44 magnum will move them. Regards, Richard

January 1, 2001, 03:02 PM	#1
Trez Junior Member Join Date: January 1, 2001 Posts: 1	Greetings from South Africa. I've recently started Pin Shooting. It's relatively new in SA and i have allot to learn. Like the best suited weapons, callibers and loads. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

January 1, 2001, 04:12 PM	#2
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Whether you want to shoot revolver or semi automatic class, the 45 acp seems to be the caliber of choice. And use the widest HP you can get your hands on. They bite into the pins better. Robert

January 1, 2001, 04:22 PM	#3
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 589	45acp on the full pins. Until our club folded, we had a great time shooting "pin heads" with .22cal pistols. (cut the pins off at the shoulder)

January 1, 2001, 04:51 PM	#4
beemerb Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Location: AZ Posts: 1,759	ANother fun thing is use 148gr full wads out of a 38 spec.It is surpriseing how far they will knock pins.

January 1, 2001, 06:04 PM	#5
Captain Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2000 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 207	I like any large bore auto or revolver for pins. I have used 45 ACPs in autos and revolvers with very good success. If you will be using lead bullets, then go with the 255 SWC or a 230 FP. Drive them pretty fast ( @ 850 to 900 FPS). 44s and 41s work well also, but oftem overpenetrate if the velocity is too high. Jacketed hollwpoints work real well if you can get them cheaply. I like the 200 gr JHPs in 45 ACP. Driven at 1050, they work really well. I have used a very hot 38 special for a while, but the recoil was pretty stiff and I'm sure the loads were way over 38 spl pressures. I used a N or L frame S&W with them. The bullet was a 200 gr FP at 12 FPS! I shot my fastest table with these...3.0 !!! I was even impressed! LOL Good luck, I always had a great time shooting pins!

January 1, 2001, 06:06 PM	#6
Captain Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2000 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 207	LOL, the 200 gr 38 was at 1200 FPS! Sorry!

January 3, 2001, 07:46 AM	#9
M58 Guest Posts: n/a	Revolver--M625 Smith Semi--G31 glock

January 3, 2001, 08:34 PM	#11
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 911	Where do you find 230gr WC bullets for the 357mag?? What kind of load data do you use? Not that I want to use them, just interested... Chris

January 3, 2001, 10:06 PM	#12
beemerb Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Location: AZ Posts: 1,759	I aallso want to know where to get 230 gr for the 357.Might be fun to work a load up.

January 5, 2001, 02:25 PM	#15
Marko Member Join Date: January 4, 2001 Posts: 16	Where does a person get the pins? Do the bowling alleys sell the old ones or do you have a source for new ones? Will a 9mm para work for this with 147's or 158's? Thanks in advance.

January 5, 2001, 05:09 PM	#16
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	My local gun shop buys used pins from the local bowling alleys. They sell them there for .75 each. The first time I tried pin shooting was in my backyard. I was using a 9mm with FMJ bullets. I couldn't figure out why the pins weren't falling consistently; I knew I was hitting them. After unloading a 13 rd. magazine into six pins and only knocking down 4 or 5 of them I found out why. The FMJ projectile was bouncing off the pins. No penetration whatsoever. I switched to 185 gr. HP and had much better success.

January 5, 2001, 07:48 PM	#17
Norm Lee Member Join Date: January 3, 2001 Location: Nassau Bay Posts: 76	Pin Shooting with a 9 Mike-Mike Hi Marko: If you can make th eright contacts, the alleys will often give you their old pins. Disposal can pose a problem to them so sometimes they welcome a willing trash hauler. The mechanics sometimes see a chance to make some "pin money" and then you may have to shell out. Going rate seems to be $1.00 to $3.00 per box of 10. You can shoot pins with a nine. I did it for a couple of years. You get NO credit for anything other than a dead center hit and I'm pretty sure that some of them were able to ignore those. It will improve your marksmanship. (Or elevate your blood pressure) On a two tier table, you can test effectiveness of a load by checking to see if you can move a pin from the upper tier to the ground without contacting the lower on the way. If you are up against rough or uneven tables or ones not well leveled, the nine probably won't do the work. I really hate to say that. Best medicine I found was a 147 SWC from D&J atop enough slow powder to get 1120 fps. That's right near the new IPSC major power floor! Cheers, Norm

January 5, 2001, 08:04 PM	#18
Norm Lee Member Join Date: January 3, 2001 Location: Nassau Bay Posts: 76	Pin Shooting with a 9 Mike-Mike Hi Marko: If you can make th eright contacts, the alleys will often give you their old pins. Disposal can pose a problem to them so sometimes they welcome a willing trash hauler. The mechanics sometimes see a chance to make some "pin money" and then you may have to shell out. Going rate seems to be $1.00 to $3.00 per box of 10. You can shoot pins with a nine. I did it for a couple of years. You get NO credit for anything other than a dead center hit and I'm pretty sure that some of them were able to ignore those. It will improve your marksmanship. (Or elevate your blood pressure) On a two tier table, you can test effectiveness of a load by checking to see if you can move a pin from the upper tier to the ground without contacting the lower on the way. If you are up against rough or uneven tables or ones not well leveled, the nine probably won't do the work. I really hate to say that. Best medicine I found was a 147 SWC from D&J atop enough slow powder to get 1120 fps. That's right near the new IPSC major power floor! Cheers, Norm

January 6, 2001, 12:16 AM	#19
Hardin Junior member Join Date: December 30, 2000 Posts: 98	jhps do better than swcs the latter require very close to perfect hits. The old "pin-grabber" hp's in .45 were the right idea. The effect sought is to enlarge the effective target area, making it, say, 3 1/2" x 7", as vs 2 1/2" by 5". That lets you go a bit faster across the table, and still clear the pins off of the back. In any case, only 5 shots is fast enough to win, if a pin goes down but not off, i just stop the run, saving time and frustration. Some pins have hollow centers, and these only work well when turned sideways.Something about how the layers of wood grain and glue resist the slug, i guess, I could never get pins to stand up to more than 6-8 hits, so practice was too expensive. Also, hits can make embedded slugs fly around, and low hits on the table can make for dangerous frags. The target area is too small to represent defensive shooting, the range too long. It is like engaging men at 25 m, a silly thing to attempt with a pistol, standing in the open, against 5 opponents. If I were interested today, I would just practice on Bianchi p 8" plates, set 25 yds distant. 4 secs plus is a LONG time to just stand there exposed to THAT many enemies' firing, don't you think? Better pray that all they have is RG 22 snub revolvers and shoot gangsta style! :-)