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Old March 13, 2013, 04:10 PM   #1
abherbitter
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Gun Cleaning

Everyone tells me I'm never going to get my barrel perfectly clean now that I've shot it, but I enjoy spending absurd amounts of time with solvent scrubbing it. The problem I have is that no amount of effort seems to be removing these light grey colored deposits I have in the grooves towards the end of the barrel.

I've been using Hoppe's No. 9. Mostly because it's what Academy has in stock. Any suggestions for some other stuff?

Any suggestions in general for gun cleaning? I grew up in a house without guns and the one I have is the first one I've ever had so I'm YouTubing it and learning it as I go.

POSSIBLY RELEVANT STUFF!

Firearm: Taurus PT145 Millenium Pro (all blue version)
Ammo: Whatever Taurus uses at their factory (purchased NIB), Winchester target ammo 230gr FMJ

I've got a nylon bristle bore brush so I can scrub all I want without worrying about a metal bristled brush scratching the inside of the barrel.
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Old March 13, 2013, 04:14 PM   #2
southjk
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Well, there's your problem. Use the nylon brush for cleaning the easy stuff. Try a bronze brush. It won't scratch your barrel.

Check here for more info.
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Old March 13, 2013, 04:38 PM   #3
BigJimP
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Hoppes is ok ....but I prefer Shooters Choice products ...and for real stubborn spots inside a barrel Barnes CR-10.

http://www.shooters-choice.com/

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/179...nt-8-oz-liquid

You should be able to pick up a lot of different products locally ...
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Old March 13, 2013, 04:58 PM   #4
SIGSHR
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I prefer to use chemistry instead of elbow grease.I let things soak.
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Old March 13, 2013, 05:25 PM   #5
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Re: Gun Cleaning

I like the M Pro 7 products but I don't obsess over getting things perfectly clean. I spent too much of my youth keeping my cars perfectly clean.
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Old March 13, 2013, 10:25 PM   #6
JohnKSa
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Quote:
Everyone tells me I'm never going to get my barrel perfectly clean now that I've shot it, but I enjoy spending absurd amounts of time with solvent scrubbing it. The problem I have is that no amount of effort seems to be removing these light grey colored deposits I have in the grooves towards the end of the barrel.
Try RemClean. Be sure to follow the directions on the bottle. If you don't shake it frequently to keep the mild abrasive in suspension, it will be remarkably ineffective.

I wouldn't use it on a regular basis, but for occasional use to get the last little bit of crud or copper fouling out of a bore, it's hard to find anything that works better.

Also be sure to thoroughly flush the cleaner from the bore when you're done and avoid getting it anywhere you can't completely remove it.
Quote:
I've got a nylon bristle bore brush so I can scrub all I want without worrying about a metal bristled brush scratching the inside of the barrel.
A properly fitting bronze or brass brush will be FAR more effective at removing fouling than a nylon brush. I tried a nylon brush for the first time this year--figured there must be something to them since people make & sell them and gun owners buy them.

It was a waste of my time. A bronze brush works much better and faster and should be safe to use on virtually any firearm. I tend to avoid their use in rimfires for two reasons. First of all, they're not necessary in rimfires, and second, rimfire rifling is much more delicate and rimfire barrels tend to be softer.

I would avoid using steel bore brushes completely. I've never found them to be necessary.
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Old March 13, 2013, 11:44 PM   #7
droptrd
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As mentioned before, ditch the nylon brush and go for a bronze one. i use Eds Red as a solvent. cleans like new for me. just let it soak for few minutes. glock barrels clean with a couple solvent/brush/patch.
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Old March 14, 2013, 02:24 PM   #8
abherbitter
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With letting it soak do I have to worry about the solvent taking the bluing off the outside of the barrel?

And I am always careful to remove any traces of solvent before I apply my oil. I keep a supply of those "air in a can" things they make for cleaning dust off of computers. I can run patches over a piece all day, but that compressed air will manage to blow a thin film of solvent off any "clean and dry" surface.
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Old March 14, 2013, 05:20 PM   #9
twice barrel
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After using a choreboy copper strip wrapped around my bronze brush for lead removal I tried it around a nylon brush. It seemed to work even better with the nylon so I suggest you keep it and give this a try.
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Old March 14, 2013, 05:45 PM   #10
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I prefer Shooters Choice, but Butch's Bore Shine works just about as well. If I feel a need to clean out more copper, I use Sweet's until the patches come out clean. Normally, I run a wet patch of Shooters Choice (or Butch) through the bbl (either handgun or rifle), then a bronze brush a few times, then wet patches until clean, followed up with a dry patch. Works for me.
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:15 PM   #11
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I read where someone said gun oil. Does anyone use dry lubricant? Such as the Hornady one shot?
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:51 PM   #12
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If you are talking about a handgun,then extra cleaning isn't going to hurt anything except your TV time. However, if you are talking about a rifle then learn when to clean and when not to clean. Contrary to what the military teaches, a spotlessly clean bore is not your friend.
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Old March 14, 2013, 08:02 PM   #13
Bob Wright
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Well, I do everything wrong. I use Hoppe's No. 9 (yellow label) and a stainless steel bore brush of correct caliber. I use an undersize jag for the caliber and soak a patch with Hoppe's and coat the bore good with that. Same for the chambers. I let this set awhile and dry the chambers, then make about ten passes through the bore with the stainless steel bore brush. Finally dry the bore. I use a 50/50 mix of automotive motor oil and Three-In-One oil, oiling the bore and chambers with a light coat. Heavily oil the exterior, then wipe it down with a blue paper shop towel, the kind sold at AutoZone.

I know this will soon wear out my guns, but I only expect to last another fifteen years at most, so my guns, which are about fifty years old in some cases, will probably last that long.

I will soon have had this gun fifty-five years, and put just over 17,000 rounds through it.



It's been cared for in this way ever since day one.

Bob Wright

P.S. Given my family history, I might last another twenty-five years.
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Old March 14, 2013, 08:38 PM   #14
PPQ226guy
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^^^^^ Gotta love that. Great post, as always, Mr Wright.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:05 PM   #15
JohnKSa
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Quote:
I know this will soon wear out my guns, but I only expect to last another fifteen years at most, so my guns, which are about fifty years old in some cases, will probably last that long.
Where did anyone say that stainless steel brushes will wear out guns?

The only comment I see was the one I made, and what I said was that I had never found them to be necessary--not that they would wear out guns.

That said, they are harder than bronze/brass brushes, just as bronze/brass brushes are harder than nylon brushes and nylon brushes are harder than patches. If I could get my bore clean in a reasonable amount of time with only patches I wouldn't use a brush at all. If I could get it clean with reasonable effort using a nylon brush, I wouldn't use bronze/brass. Since I can get it clean in a reasonable amount of time with bronze/brass, I don't use steel.

If you feel like you need to use steel, and aren't seeing any negative effects as a result, then more power to you. But it's a little overly melodramatic to try to make it sound like someone has prophesied doom & gloom on any guns that have been cleaned with steel bore brushes when all that's been said is that steel bore brushes aren't necessary.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:13 PM   #16
Newton24b
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a brass brush wrapped with a patch,and liberally soaked with #9 does WONDERS for lead.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:23 PM   #17
Wreck-n-Crew
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I would never use that oil mixture in a semi auto.....gum up the works but you can do things with a revolver that you can with a semi-auto.
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:43 PM   #18
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Re: Gun Cleaning

Ultra sonic and some hornady gurn parts cleaner works great !!!!!!
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:57 PM   #19
Theophilus
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Not for rimfires?

Code:
I tend to avoid their use in rimfires for two reasons. First of all, they're not necessary in rimfires, and second, rimfire rifling is much more delicate and rimfire barrels tend to be softer.
I for one would benefit from some more info on this, from JohnSka or anyone else...
Why does a rimfire make a brush unnecessary? Is it because most of the fouling occurs on the cylinder? (I'm asking about a revolver).
Does my Charter Pathfinder have "rifling [that] is much more delicate" and a softer barrel?
(I was just getting ready to scour out my revolvers, including my .22, when I read this).
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:24 AM   #20
JohnKSa
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Quote:
Does my Charter Pathfinder have "rifling [that] is much more delicate" and a softer barrel?
Given the smaller bore diameter, the rifling grooves tend to be smaller and not as deep/raised. So, yes, I would say is more delicate. It's not possible to say for certain what the hardness of the Charter Pathfinder barrel is, all one can say is that rimfire barrels TEND to be softer. Any given company could choose to make their rimfire barrels as hard as centerfire barrels, if they wished to do so. That would, however, almost certainly result in a higher priced final product, so you would tend to see that kind of thing in high-end rimfires where the company is not terribly concerned with designing and manufacturing to a competitive price point.

Here's one source that mentions the relative softness of many rimfire barrels.

http://rceco.com/img/RSBook14.PDF
"AISI 12L14 is often used for .22 Long Rifle rimfire barrels. This steel has a hardness of 84 Rb. The steel is soft enough that the B scale must be used as the C scale would not be accurate. C12L14 is a low carbon steel and cannot be thermally hardened. It machines very easily and takes a good finish but isn’t tough enough to be used for higher pressure cartridges."
For reference, 84RB is significantly softer than 15RC--so soft it's off the bottom of the RC chart. Some of the hardest bronze/brass alloys can approach 20RC, and even phosphor bronze--a common bore brush material--can be as hard as 104RB, significantly harder than 84RB.

Here's another.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles...f_accuracy.htm
"After a barrel has been taken from the furnace Lilja tests the steel for hardness. A Rockwell hardness of 24 to 25 is about right for a good accuracy life, he said."
It's not hard to find other sources that confirm RC figures below (often WELL below) 25 RC are typical for rimfire barrels. Notice that Lilja is a premium rimfire barrel maker and only works toward a hardness in the mid 20s.

For comparison, centerfire barrels typically measure higher on the RC hardness scale--from the mid 20s into the low 30s.

Although I doubt that bore brush manufacturers go for the hardest alloys available, there are some bronze alloys that can be as hard as 20RC. In other words, while the hardest bronze/brass alloys aren't anywhere near as hard as the hardest steel alloys, they are as hard as, or even harder than some of the softer steels--like the ones sometimes used in rimfire barrels.

For what it's worth, I'm not really trying to make a case that bronze/brass brushes will certainly damage rimfire barrels because there are too many variables in the mix to be able to make a statement that accurately applies to all cases. I'm just noting that:

1. I don't use bore brushes in rimfires because I don't find that I need to, and
2. It's wise to keep in mind that rimfire barrels are typically much easier to damage than centerfire barrels.
Quote:
Why does a rimfire make a brush unnecessary?
Perhaps I should have qualified my answer more carefully. In my experience, I have been able to rapidly and easily get rimfire bores clean using only patches and solvents, which means that brushes have not been necessary. The design of rimfire ammunition generally reduces fouling compared to typical centerfires as long as the bore is reasonably smooth. In my CZ-452, .22LR rifles, for example, I can shoot several hundred rounds, put a single dry patch down the bore and have it look spotless. Same with the rimfire pistols I shoot.

If you are experiencing significant fouling in a rimfire, perhaps the bore is significantly rougher than normal, or perhaps the ammunition being used is very low quality.

If you are not experiencing significant observable bore fouling or accuracy degradation that can't be readily remedied with patches and solvents, then I wouldn't subject the bore to a brush, nor yourself to the trouble of using one.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:43 AM   #21
Newton24b
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pertaining to the rimfire question, a large number of professional target shooters advocate no brass brushes of any kind. some feel even nylon brushes are BAD. many only advocate cleaning the barrel when accuracy starts changing. the reason for those feelings is that they feel they cannot get perfect accuracy and consistency unless the lead fouling creates a perfect layering inside the barrel to that the bullets no longer actually touch metal, but ride a tube of bullet material downrange.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:32 AM   #22
abherbitter
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Bob Wright:
Quote:
I use an undersize jag for the caliber and soak a patch with Hoppe's and coat the bore good with that.
What's a jag in this context?

I have only ever shot FMJ (Winchester's target ammo, specifically) through this barrel. Would I still have lead fouling in the grooves?

On a tangent, anyone have any informed opinions on Academy Sport's store brand "Monarch" ammo? Stuff is cheap but I hear it's dirty. We've already established I'm happy to sit at the kitchen table for hours on end with a tooth brush and bottle of solvent. But if I'm shooting 200rds (manufacturer specified limit, I RTFM) does a dirty ammo pose a danger to the gun?
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:34 PM   #23
temmi
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MPro 7 is all I use

If it won't clean your gun...

you need to see a smith

Snake
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:38 PM   #24
ClydeFrog
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Hoppes Viper or Remington Squgee...

Try a Viper Boresnake or a SQUEEGE from www.remington.com .

That may work.
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Old March 15, 2013, 12:54 PM   #25
Bob Wright
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abherbitter asked:
Quote:
What's a jag in this context?
A jag is a cleaning rod tip that is not slotted to hold a patch. It is sort of cylindrical with annular groves, and may or may not have a small sharp point. To use a jag, the patch is placed squared over the muzzle and the jag forced down into the barel. The patch sort of wraps itself around the jag. An undersized jag doesn't squeeze the solvent out as it goes down the bore, acting more like a mop.

As to the detrimental use of steel bore brushes, there are many who hold that belief, not that it was stated nor implied in this thread. I was just heading off what I believed to be forthcoming critism.

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