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Old February 11, 2013, 04:32 PM   #1
oldgunsmith
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98 Low Scope Safety

In the Feb. 10 issue of Shotgun News, page 24 in the "Ask the Gunsmith" column, Ried Coffield specifically says that a 98 Mauser sporter with a low scope safety should not fire if you "hold the trigger to the rear, and then release the safety". He gives a brief explanation with photos of how it works, which makes it quite clear that if you do that it is going to fire (if it's loaded). Surely what he means is if you squeeze the trigger then let off before you release the safety, it should not fire. In 25 years as a gunsmith instructor, every now and then I have to explain how typos, mis-spoken or confusing statements, poor wording, etc. can lead them astray. If something you read doesn't make sense, investigate it!
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:29 PM   #2
James K
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I noticed that also and, like you, I am sure Mr. Coffield meant what you think he meant.

Jim
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Old February 25, 2013, 04:58 PM   #3
F. Guffey
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In the Feb. 10 issue of Shotgun News, page 24 in the "Ask the Gunsmith" column, Ried Coffield specifically says that a 98 Mauser sporter with a low scope safety should not fire if you "hold the trigger to the rear, and then release the safety". He gives a brief explanation with photos of how it works, which makes it quite clear that if you do that it is going to fire (if it's loaded). Surely what he means is if you squeeze the trigger then let off before you release the safety, it should not fire. In 25 years as a gunsmith instructor, every now and then I have to explain how typos, mis-spoken or confusing statements, poor wording, etc. can lead them astray. If something you read doesn't make sense, investigate it!




I am sure Reid Coffield understands if the trigger is pulled and the safety is released there is nothing supporting the firing pin assemble. Then there is that story about pulling the trigger then releasing the safety, and I ask many times “How could the safety get into that configuration? I never remember anyone getting it correct when explaining.

So? what ever you are talking about has caused me to “Question all the answers”, I am not on speaking terms with Reid Coffield but if I was I would contact him first before I jumped on the Internet and tried to make myself look good at his expense.

"In 25 years as a gunsmith instructor, every now and then I have to explain how typos, mis-spoken or confusing statements, poor wording, etc. can lead them astray. If something you read doesn't make sense, investigate it!"


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Old February 25, 2013, 05:03 PM   #4
F. Guffey
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Then there is the other configuration, goes something like firing a round without pulling the trigger. I know, I will not have to explain that to you, you with all your experience.

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Old February 26, 2013, 10:25 AM   #5
F. Guffey
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February 11, 2013, 04:32 PM #1
oldgunsmith
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Posts: 64 98 Low Scope Safety

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Surely what he means is if you squeeze the trigger then let off before you release the safety, it should not fire. In 25 years as a gunsmith instructor, every now and then I have to explain how typos, mis-spoken or confusing statements, poor wording, etc. can lead them astray. If something you read doesn't make sense, investigate it!




February 12, 2013, 01:29 PM #2
James K
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Posts: 15,705 I noticed that also and, like you, I am sure Mr. Coffield meant what you think he meant.

Jim
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“I am sure Mr. Coffield meant....etc..”

What would I have said? It is not possible to get the cock on close Mauser type 98 rifle into that configuration. Meaning, the safety has a cam, when the safety is set the safety moves the cocking piece to the rear and behind the trigger/sear, I could say look at it, or think about it but that has never worked in the past, so ‘again’ I will explain. With the cocking piece pushed off the trigger sear there is no way the trigger can be under a ‘load condition’. when the safety is set the safety is under the ‘load condition’ releasing the safety transfers the weight to the trigger sear.

“every now and then I have to explain how typos, misspoken or confusing statements, poor wording, etc..” There are two ways the Mauser M98 cock on close rifle can get into the configuration described in this thread: One, We all know the Mauser bolt can not be installed unless the bolt is cocked, when I install a Mauser bolt I raise/apply the safety, After installing the bolt I check to see if the safety is under a load condition, if the safety is loose I know the trigger is under a load condition, meaning if I pull the trigger the safety catches and supports the cocking piece. releasing the safety allows the rifle to fire.

The trigger/sear must be in a no load condition when the safety is set. Releasing the the safety will allow the cocking piece to move forward to set on the sear. When the safety is set, rotated, raised the safety must not be loose, when the safety is set the safety is supporting the cocking piece, if the safety is applied and loose pulling the trigger will release the cocking piece to set on the safety, releasing the safety will allow the rifle to fire if loaded.

Firing without pulling the trigger, a proud owner handed me a Mauser/all matching rifle, I was impressed, I informed him the rifle had a problem, back to all matching, I was told that could not be, because? I cocked the rifle, pushed the trigger forward and the firing pin fell, after turning the rifle upside down he was convinced he did not want to drop the rifle out of a tree and or bounce the butt off the payment especially if he decided on making the trigger pull lighter and or smoother.

Then the part Mr. Coffield described, the low safety, install the safety, assemble the bolt with the safety set, install the bolt, if after installing the bolt the safety is found to be loose the trigger will be under a load, pulling the trigger will release the cocking piece allowing the cocking piece to be supported by the safety only, again, releasing the safety will allow the firing pin to fall, if the rifle is loaded do not assume it will not fire.

Then there is the other problem, the safety can not be raised when the firing pin assemble is supported by the trigger/sear. I have access to 500+ safeties, for me it is a matter of locating a safety that allows the safetie’s cam to be in front of the cocking piece.


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Old February 28, 2013, 10:41 AM   #6
Nevmavrick
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F. Guffy
We're back to the "misspoke" again.
If it's a cock on closing....it's NOT an M98, it's one of the earlier M95 or M96 actions.
Have fun,
Gene
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Old February 28, 2013, 10:47 AM   #7
Nevmavrick
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On either of the Mausers, cock on opening OR cock on closing, once the firing pin is cocked, and the safety is set, there is no tension on the trigger, the safety cams the firing pin back.
Therefore, when the trigger is pulled, and kept back, then the safety released, the firing pin will fall forward...firing the gun, if there is a cartridge in the chamber.
Have fun,
Gene
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Old March 5, 2013, 02:57 PM   #8
F. Guffey
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February 28, 2013, 11:47 AM #7
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Posts: 136 On either of the Mausers, cock on opening OR cock on closing, once the firing pin is cocked, and the safety is set, there is no tension on the trigger, the safety cams the firing pin back.
Therefore, when the trigger is pulled, and kept back, then the safety released, the firing pin will fall forward...firing the gun, if there is a cartridge in the chamber.
Have fun,
Gene


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Very good, that is where this thread started.

“Then the part Mr. Coffield described, the low safety, install the safety, assemble the bolt with the safety set, install the bolt, if after installing the bolt the safety is found to be loose the trigger will be under a load, pulling the trigger will release the cocking piece allowing the cocking piece to be supported by the safety only, again, releasing the safety will allow the firing pin to fall, if the rifle is loaded do not assume it will not fire”’

None of my Mausers are cocked until I close the bolt, I can lift the bolt, I can lower the bolt ,not magic, my rifle is cocked and I didn’t even open the bolt, that does not make my 98 Mausers cock on bolt handle lift, at the same time it did not require I open the bolt as in pulling the bolt back to put distance between the chamber and bolt face.

Cocking and ‘camming’ the firing pin assemble is not allowed to rotate with the bolt when the handle is raised, the firing pin assemble is held in place with the front of the firing pin, the flat sides of the firing pin fit into a slot in the front of the bolt, when the handle is raised the firing pin assemble cams back when the cocking piece engages the cam in rear of the bolt.

Terms unknown to smiths and reloaders, load and no load, I hope that did not confuse anyone.

Again, when the Mauser is cocked and the load is on the trigger, raise the safety, if after raising the safety there is no load on the safety why pull the trigger, When installing a 98 Mauser bolt I set the safety at 12 o'clock (straight up), if after I install the bolt I find the safety loose without a load as in the safety is in a no load condition I know is is pointless to continue BECAUSE! the 98 Mauser was never designed to be assembled in that configuration.

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