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Old September 16, 2015, 10:49 PM   #1
johnwilliamson062
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6.5 based on .223 case?

I can't find one anywhere. Seems to be one based on .221, X39, and one or two others, but none off the .223 that will feed from standard AR mags. Seemed pretty odd to me. Wanted to make sure I wasn't missing it somewhere.
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Old September 16, 2015, 10:51 PM   #2
mehavey
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While not based on the 223 case, the 6.5 Grendel will feed from a 223 AR magazine.
(At least mine certainly does)
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Old September 16, 2015, 11:07 PM   #3
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You did miss it. It is called the 6.5PCC (Patriot Combat Cartridge). I have one and I have really enjoyed it. All you need is a barrel swap. Uses .223 mags to full capacity and all the other AR15 parts. Happily sold my 6.5G upper once I had it built.

I have a toolhead for the Dillon 650 that includes a custom trim die for the Dillon case trimmer to process brass. I'll run a 5 gallon bucket of .223 brass and then swap the trim die and run a few coffee cans to make 6.5PCC brass.

I mostly shoot 107 and 123s. It is not a 6.5G, which is a little faster, but it is cheaper and easier to deal with which is what I wanted.
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Old September 17, 2015, 01:43 AM   #4
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Take a look at 6.5 TCU, the main problem with 6.5 bullets is they eat up magazine length. However, if you stick to bullets 125 grain and lighter it should be possible to play within magazine constraints and be successful. As mentioned though the PCC is probably the better option since it was designed for the AR platform and not a single shot pistol.
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Old September 17, 2015, 07:46 AM   #5
johnwilliamson062
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6.5PCC looks just about perfect. They don't have any data for trajectory though. The FPS lags the 6.5G by just a hair in given bullet weights, so I can probably assume a minor increase in drop.

I see a lot of back and forth over whether 6.5G feeds from standard mags reliably. Quite a few claim it doesn't and that leads me to believe there are issues.
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Old September 17, 2015, 08:20 AM   #6
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There is data out there for the 6.5PCC, just have to search for it. Do you have a ballistics app on a smart phone? That will give you all you need. If you have questions, feel free to ask or message me to take a look at a thread. There are not a lot of 6.5PCCs in the wild, but I thoroughly enjoy mine.

6.5G feeds okay if you fill the mags half full or less, or buy the specific 6.5G mags. We have several guys that shoot them in practical rifle matches here and none of them load past half full, or they lose.
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Old September 17, 2015, 10:05 PM   #7
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Well, I am thinking about it for a CZ mini action. I know they make AR magazines, but i wonder if the would turn one with threads for the CZ. Seems like it might be a really good combination for a "cub" "scout rifle" build.
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Old September 18, 2015, 03:07 PM   #8
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What about 25-45 sharps? It's not quite 6.5mm, but close. (I don't know too much about it, just pointing it out)
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Old September 18, 2015, 06:16 PM   #9
Unlicensed Dremel
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Sooo..... difference between 6.5 PPC and 6.5 TCU?
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Old September 20, 2015, 01:34 AM   #10
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Isn't that pretty close to a 25-45 Sharps?
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Old September 20, 2015, 09:41 AM   #11
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Main difference is case length the TCU being 1.75" and the PCC at 1.65". Here is a picture to show the difference between the PCC and .223 Rem.

.223 Rem vs. 6.5PCC
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Old September 20, 2015, 10:12 AM   #12
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The reason for the dimensions on the 6.5PCC is for 100% reliable feeding out of all types of AR15 magazines. I do not know the specifics of the magazines for the CZ mini action, however if the dimensions of the 6.5PCC do not offer you some benefit there, I would explore other case dimensions as well.

Just FYI, I shot a 5 shot 300 yard group into 1.3" last week, so they do shoot.
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Old September 20, 2015, 10:28 PM   #13
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With the available powder capacity, seems like a 6mm would be a better fit for a .223 based wildcat.
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Old October 13, 2015, 07:43 PM   #14
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The Army has played around with a 6x45 a couple of times, at least to the point of having prototype rifles and LMGs and some ammunition made.

Back in the mid-1960s various 6x45s did well in the varmint rifles of the day. The guy who ran Remington's custom shop, whose name I can't remember offhand, was quite fond of it.

I'm a major 6.5 fan, but the availability of 6mm/.243 bullets is equaled only by the .30 caliber.
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Old October 14, 2015, 09:36 PM   #15
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I've heard of a 6.5 MPC, but know no details.
I'm not a reloader yet. Sorry.
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Old October 14, 2015, 09:42 PM   #16
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i didn't see you specify the exact purpose, but it sounds like a flat trajectory is desirable, I also agree that a 6mm would make better use of the available case capacity. the ultra accurate 6.5 are usually running twice as much powder than the maybe 20-ish grains you'd be able to fit in an altered case. But if your only wanting hunting distance, like 300 and under, I guess maybe the 6.5 would be just as well.
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Old October 15, 2015, 12:40 AM   #17
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" but the availability of 6mm/.243 bullets is equaled only by the .30 caliber."

Think you need to stick to your preferred 6.5mm...

And actually count the number of bullets available...

The number of .30 caliber bullets FAR EXCEEDS the number of .24 caliber bullets...

Bullets in .22 caliber ALSO FAR EXCEEDS the number of .24 caliber bullets by about 2X!

And, surprisingly, there are about as many 6.5mm bullets available!!!

So stick to both of our favorite (6.5mm)...

T.
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Old October 15, 2015, 08:11 PM   #18
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Unless you are benchrest shooting, and I probably won't be, I think the availability of bullets thing is over played in rifles. Almost anything put where it needs to will get the job done. Anything anywhere else probably won't.
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Old March 11, 2016, 09:59 PM   #19
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Well, after months of deliberation and procrastination, I think I am going to purchase a 6.5 PCC AR barrel and go from there.

Probably be a VERY slow build taking a year or so though.
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Old March 11, 2016, 11:02 PM   #20
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You will be happy with it.
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Old March 12, 2016, 10:41 PM   #21
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As normally loaded, I don't think the TCU will fit AR mags.
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Old March 12, 2016, 11:08 PM   #22
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I've thought about something similar but using the CZ 527 7.62x39 to convert to 6.5 Grendel. It would be a handy little deer rifle.
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Old March 14, 2016, 06:57 AM   #23
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i have a rem 40xb in 6x47 and its a easy wildcat to make, 222 rem mag case(204 ruger cases can be used) necked up in one step and ready to load. 60gr bullets at 3200fps and 75gr bullets right at 3000fps. eastbank.
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Old March 14, 2016, 07:52 AM   #24
taylorce1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbank
i have a rem 40xb in 6x47 and its a easy wildcat to make, 222 rem mag case(204 ruger cases can be used) necked up in one step and ready to load. 60gr bullets at 3200fps and 75gr bullets right at 3000fps. eastbank.
I love my 6X47, but I'm about to go to the 6X45 as .222 RM brass is getting hard to locate. I haven't had much luck with .204 brass without annealing first, and even then only have about a 75% success rate. I have an issue with my resizing die and need to send it back to Hornady to be fixed or replaced.

I found H335 and 70 grain NBT bullets to be my go to load. I get nearly 3100 fps with this combo out of my 20" barreled Stevens 200. My only regret with this rifle is not going with a 10 or faster twist, my rifle has a 12 twist and I haven't found a bullet heavier than 70 grains it likes.

One thing you don't have issues with in a 40XB is magazine length, which is another reason for my going 6X45. The 6mm bullets and the 222 Rem Mag case just aren't a great pairing in most magazine and especially the AR magazines. That's why most new AR cartridges like 6.5 PCC AR, .277 Wolverine, .300 BLK shorten the .223 case.
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Old March 15, 2016, 04:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
With the available powder capacity, seems like a 6mm would be a better fit for a .223 based wildcat.
That's the 6x45 - one of the best AR15 wildcats out there IMO. If I recall correctly it will throw a 90gr accubond at about 2700 and more or less mimic the supersonic distance of M118LR, and maintain enough velocity to expand out to about 400y depending on elevation. All without using any non-standard parts other than the barrel, and with none of the bolt, extractor, and magazine issues associated with overly large bolt face cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel.
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