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Old March 5, 2013, 06:33 PM   #26
TXAZ
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Sunaj,

What would you do if you were a small farmer with 160 acres and 50 - 200 hogs that chew through several acres a day?

I don't know where you're located, maybe the feral hogs aren't a problem there. In Central, South and East Texas, it's a major problem. The annual costs/impacts are over $100M in the state, plus human lives. That's not only the acre-per-weekend a small sounder / herd of 10 - 20 hogs can strip clear to a farm or ranch. It's also the massive erosion problem they create once the land is bare that small and medium farmers simply can't keep up with.
It's the threat to other small animals, typically pets that are in danger. But in some counties, 5 or 6 very dark 200 pounder's suddenly running across the highway at night have resulted in fatal accidents (in addition to the hogs).

And how many natural predators are there of the aggressive feral? Effectively zero.

Whether you think it's fair or not, feral hogs are a massive problem. The state is not interested in the 19th century British solution to the Malaysian plantation rat problem( injecting predators by bringing in 100,000 cobras from India... No rats on that peninsula, but you don't go walking in tall grass): Any predator likely to be effective against the hogs will likely enjoy slower moving livestock better.

Shooting / hunting / exterminating these creatures is a necessity: Waiting for another gestation cycle is only exacerbating the problem.
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:36 PM   #27
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That's a lot of fancy words,
That is what your fancy plan would involve. The helihunting people came up with their fancy plan and made it happen. You may not like it, but they did make it happen and are implementing it successfully. So far, their plan is way ahead of yours.

Quote:
let me get this right-
we have a critter that can be hunted all year long,
lots of people are dying to find something to hunt esp in the off season,
this critter has several hundred pound of excellent meat, that is good for human consumption and animal feed,
and you are telling me the only way to solve this problem is to kill them en mass from a helicopter??? Give everyone a break,
Nope. I never said a single any even remotely suggesting that the only way to deal with the hog problem is by helicopter. Nobody here has suggested this course of action. I simply pointed out that your perspective on helihunting being wrong, inefficient, etc. was naïve on various levels, especially the efficiency aspect.

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you know we have landowners here in Ca who are crying about pigs tearing up their property, except these same greedy B* want to charge hunter $500 to take a pig on their land-they are getting what their greed is asking for, open it up to hunting, make the tags free or nearly free with no limit-and you have some exciting hunting for a lot of people
What you do in CA doesn't mean much in Texas, but I have to hand it to you that you are complaining about how we do things here and you aren't even here, LOL. However, we don't have the silly pig tags like CA. Hogs in Texas are not classified as a game animal as they are in California. We have no limit, 24/7/365 legal pig hunting and trapping. We can use fully auto, .50 bmg, rimfire, or air rifles for hunting pigs if we so desire. We can use dogs, night vision, thermal vision, and even knives. And, we can use helicopters.

As for opening up private land for hunting, we don't much cotton to government-mandated socialized hunting laws such as requiring private land be opened to the public.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:11 PM   #28
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Well you can call it eradication or whatever,
think what a public hunting festival this could have been
if they would have opened it up to hunters,
all the fees people would have paid going toward game management,
the fun of hunting and resolving an overpopulstion etc.
This is not a game.. your reasoning is akin to decrying rat eradication, on the grounds that they might provide sport for someone and generate government revenues... only these are 200 lb. rats and far, far more destructive.

Quote:
Jeeze-we spend $$$ from the public trough raising fish/fowl/game to replenish animal stocks so we have something to hunt/fish, and this is a made-for-hunters scenario;
you know we have landowners here in Ca who are crying about pigs tearing up their property, except these same greedy B* want to charge hunter $500 to take a pig on their land-they are getting what their greed is asking for,
open it up to hunting, make the tags free or nearly free with no limit-and you have some exciting hunting for a lot of people
That's why Oregon banned paid hunts for feral swine. But since you mentioned California, they made the mistake of classifying feral hogs as "game animals" and now their feral swine population is out of control. No one is going to come to your state and pay $71.54 for a hog tag.

You mention how much money we spend raising game animals for hunters, did you ever stop and think how much damage feral hogs do to native habitats and populations of said game animals?

It's a BIG problem, and you can either try to deal with it, like Texas, or ignore it like California.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:24 PM   #29
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Can someone answer a stupid question, from a person that has never so much as seen a "feral" hog in person as they are not a problem and or non existent in my state.


What REALLY caused this? I mean how did we get these massive herds of wild pigs? Where did they come from? Is it something like the snake problem in Florida where uneducated jack @sse$ and careless people cased it way back when...I'm serious here, I honestly don't know. 9 times out of 10 the root cause of these things in truth the aforementioned people are to blame.


Also... eradication? Really? are they that bad that it wouldn't be better to have them to a reasonable controllable number, so as to be able to maintain hog hunting? But rather completely wipe them from the earth never to be seen or be a huntable species again?

Lets be honest here...hunting is NOT for the same purpose it was 200 years ago with about 90% of people that hunt. It's partly heritage, tradition, family, "sport" (good usable food too, not saying it's got nothing to do with that anymore obviously) point being, I wouldn't want to see any huntable species GONE. What's wrong with low, controlled numbers?

I could find you dozens of people in my area that think deer are useless, destructive animals that cause millions of dollars a year in vehicle and property damage. And they would happily agree to having them all destroyed.....don't think that would go over well with many (me included)
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:26 PM   #30
Brian Pfleuger
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The problem was caused by the hogs being released into the wild. They breed like rats.

And yes, eradication. They are a non-native, invasive, highly-destructive species that is a significant danger to numerous native animal and plant species.

They should be eradicated. Anything less will not stop them. They breed too fast.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:26 PM   #31
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To add to what BP said, feral hogs can start breeding at 7-8 months of age and will produce 2-3 litters of an average of about 4-6 individuals per year, although have been recorded over 10 in good conditions. Survivorship of the young is fairly high because of a combination of protection of being in a sounder (often extended familial and co-familial groups), being able to be fed by multiple sows, and a very limited number of natural predators outside of humans. Bears, alligators, crocodiles (limited to southern tip of Florida), wolves, and mountain lions are pretty much all there is in North America that poses as a natural threat.

The notion of hogs being "released" into the wild got me to do a little historical study sometime back, in part because of stories my father recounted to me of raising pigs in east Texas. The practice he described was one I found documented back to Jamestown and universally practiced across the US. It is the practice of free-ranging the livestock. My father would turn out the hogs in the morning and in the evening have to rustle them up from the bottoms and bring them back home. Not all came home. Sometimes, he would end up with neighbor pigs and vice versa. The pigs didn't care whose home they went to. All they knew is that they were going to get slopped at the end of the day, hence their willingness to return home.

Free ranging was one of the best ways to raise pigs. Why? The pigs fed on their own from nature during the day, watered themselves, and deposited their waste away from humans. It also meant keeping even small groups genetically diversified as they met up with other groups and bred with them during free ranging activities. As noted with not all the pigs coming home and sometimes ending up with the neighbor's pigs, free-ranging also meant hogs were continually going wayward. Some went feral.

Here is a neat reference about Jamestown and the folks there nearly being overrun with feral hogs as a result of this practice.
http://books.google.com/books?id=aGF...20hogs&f=false

Unlike deer, BerdanSS, hogs are omnivores. They do hunt. They scavenge, even cannibalistically. They eat plants. They eat mold. They eat fungus. Their rooting activities create erosion problems and often kill the plants under which they are rooting even when the hog isn't consuming the plant.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:33 PM   #32
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Re: Hogs by helicopter.....

Yep, you can't really control their population due to how rapidly they breed and their population grows. We also don't even want any of them. The damage a single sounder can do is staggering, and farmers can't afford to have them. They are a problem that isn't solved by "managing" their herd, it is solved by removing them; plain and simple.
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:00 PM   #33
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Okay, I understand certain parts of the problem (especially Texas) have a problem with feral hogs and you need to eradicate them.

But, here is the problem with helicopters and 2 guys killing 450 in 2 days. The anti-hunters will have a field day with this kind of footage and those of who want to hunt anything will have to suffer their rath.

You have a nuisance animal that you want to eradicate yet you make it impossibly expensive for the "average out of state joe" to help with the problem. Helicopter shooting of these animals may be a great way to remove a lot of these hogs BUT the last thing we should be doing is advertising it on TV "sportsman shows" and shooting forums. JMO
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:18 PM   #34
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Re: Hogs by helicopter.....

Cowboy_mo, it isn't just out of state hunters that is it hard on. If you live in Texas but don't have access to private property you will be paying a pretty penny to "hunt" these animals as well. Unfortunately, allowing strangers to hunt is an extreme liability to landowners. The last time my family let someone that we didn't know extremely well hunt on our land, he shot and killed a calf. Since then, we don't let anyone except family and very close friends hunt on our land. Many other Texas landowners are the same way. We are nice and welcoming here, but we don't let strangers just go out on our property and hunt. And public hunting land is pretty much over hunted so it doesn't do anyone too much good as far as finding much game.
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:19 PM   #35
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"Nonsense"...

Not only is this your opinion... it appears based not on any education...

The opinion that hunting a few per year per person will help reduce the population is reality proven NONSENSE!!!

Folks have been doing that for for centuries in texas... and the pigs are plenty...

They been in full on eradication mode since 1990 and they are not making any headway...

Love the idea that "tourist hunters" don't mind paying for a rather unusual experience... Love that the land owner who supports the "hunt" or "shoot" gets to put a real dent in the hog population using a method that would be cost prohibitive had he had to hire the chopper...

So we set up a "shoot" requiring AK variants and we can title the event...

"Choppin' Pigs With Choppers And Choppers"... or...

"Hittin' Hogs With Hueys And Ho Chi Min Specials"...

Brent

Brent
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Old March 5, 2013, 10:46 PM   #36
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But, here is the problem with helicopters and 2 guys killing 450 in 2 days. The anti-hunters will have a field day with this kind of footage and those of who want to hunt anything will have to suffer their rath.
Look, we have been pork-chopping since at least as far back as 2009 and it has been legal as a paid tourist industry since Sept. 1, 2011. If the anti-gunners were going to have a problem with this, I think you would have heard about it. The PETA type folks have already made their complaints known, primarily the concern for inhumane wounding of the hogs, but that amount of concern has been largely quelled as well. The pork choppers aren't apt to lose wounded hogs because of their aerial advantage.

So your problem isn't really a problem. This type of activity has been going on for years, literally, has been made public and is known, and no anti-gunners are having any sort of field days with it. The media isn't crucifying the gunners. In fact, the media loves this sort of thing. It is an interesting, bizarre, exciting story, complete with blood and killing, and it is all very positive. Even when the PETA people protest in the media, there are counter arguments from the victims of hog activities talking about how their lives and livelihoods are being ruined because of hogs and how they welcome such efforts.

Continuing hogdogs' theme...

Ahogalypse Now
Hogageddon
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Old March 5, 2013, 11:49 PM   #37
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But, here is the problem with helicopters and 2 guys killing 450 in 2 days. The anti-hunters will have a field day with this kind of footage and those of who want to hunt anything will have to suffer their rath.
As others have said, you'd be hard pressed to find any environmentalists or anti-hunters worried about feral hogs. They realize the impact feral swine have on native ecosystems. I haven't heard anyone complain about the eradication attempts of pythons in Florida or Dutch Broom on the west coast.

The counter argument just doesn't exist.
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Old March 6, 2013, 08:47 AM   #38
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One should not make universal statements about the breeding properties of wild hogs. In SW and SC OK wild sows very seldom have more than one litter of pigs per year; even in years when there is a bumper acorn and pecan crop. i routinely trap and kill sows that are 2-3 years old that have never had a litter.

In the past two weeks a friend and i have trapped and killed 47 wild hogs, including 26 sows. Two sows had litters and five were pregnant with a total of 27 pigs.

i'm not a fish and game biologist: i have spent many thousands of hours trapping, hunting and observing wild hogs and have developed the ability to quickly identify individual wild hogs.

Quote:
What REALLY caused this? I mean how did we get these massive herds of wild pigs?
The expansion of the hog population here in OK may be typical of other states as well. About 20 years ago it became popular to release hogs into the wild. At about the same time there was a proliferation of hog hunting "ranches". The sale of trapped hogs to hunting "ranches" is a booming business in parts of OK. People buy hogs at livestock sales and turn them loose. At our properties in SC OK i often kill hogs that look like dirty show pigs.

There was an infusion of Eurasian boar blood into the feral hog population in parts of OK. This resulted in a meaner and more hardy hog better suited for survival in cold weather.

Control of the wild hog population in OK has been frustrated by the OWDC. The ability to hunt hogs in the WMAs are greatly limited by the OWDC. Never mind, they hire helicopters at great expense to reduce the hog populations in those same WMAs. No crops or livestock are raised on my hunting properties. That means i don't qualify for a permit to kill live hogs at night using a light.

Any lactating sow will allow any pig in the sounder to nurse. i've seen individual sows running with pigs of various ages.

Last edited by thallub; March 6, 2013 at 08:59 AM.
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Old March 6, 2013, 10:46 AM   #39
BerdanSS
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Pretty much what I though....a stupid "good idea", carelessness and plain ol' irresponsibility to blame. Now everyone that is in a state over run with wild hogs is paying for what someone did of their own accord....and from the sounds of it, paying dearly.

I do understand....just wanted some clarity. But at the same time you cant separate and label different species nation wide just because you want to. Hogs may be the mother of all destruction in Texas, but not here. Here we have issues you may not have. Florida had problems neither of us have while at the same time having no issues with our problem animals.

They are a BIG problem in places, but you shouldn't pass global judgment on them for what they are in you state. Think ground hogs aren't a problem? How about asking our family friend, how having a collage study program partner with the airport on a wild-life haven opened next to their multi generation family owned orchard impacted them? They were DECIMATED the fourth year and nearly lost a business that has been in the family for over 150 years. Just something to think about.

(In jest since you can't see my face while I say it) you Texas fellers have a history of> Good for Texas, good for everyone kinda thing.
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Old March 6, 2013, 11:07 AM   #40
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerdanSS
Think ground hogs aren't a problem? How about asking our family friend, how having a collage study program partner with the airport on a wild-life haven opened next to their multi generation family owned orchard impacted them? They were DECIMATED the fourth year and nearly lost a business that has been in the family for over 150 years. Just something to think about.
I don't know what groundhogs have to do with real hogs, but they''re also a problem (though not invasive) species that is generally recreationally hunted at every opportunity.

I can't imagine any farmer not knowing how to deal with them, or having a dozen hunters begging to hunt the place.
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Old March 6, 2013, 11:32 AM   #41
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Yeah, hogs tend to bed down during the day. So, with a chopper, you use the same technique as when using one to help round up cattle. Swoop down toward an oak motte and rear back and accelerate. The wind blast brings out cows, hogs, deer, turkeys, javelina and Lord knows what all.

During a cattle roundup, attendant cowboys on horseback have been known to enthusiastically and optimistically rope a buck, which gives a whole new meaning to "rodeo". The problem is that of retrieving the rope.

But hog hunters then have hogs to shoot.

It's not just crop damage. The new tollway in central Texas is having problems with the conflict of cars vs. hogs. The route is through an area of high hog population. Hitting a hog of 200 or 300 pounds is much like hitting a boulder.
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Old March 6, 2013, 02:49 PM   #42
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Quote:
The notion of hogs being "released" into the wild got me to do a little historical study sometime back, in part because of stories my father recounted to me of raising pigs in east Texas. The practice he described was one I found documented back to Jamestown and universally practiced across the US. It is the practice of free-ranging the livestock. My father would turn out the hogs in the morning and in the evening have to rustle them up from the bottoms and bring them back home. Not all came home. Sometimes, he would end up with neighbor pigs and vice versa. The pigs didn't care whose home they went to. All they knew is that they were going to get slopped at the end of the day, hence their willingness to return home.
DNS...My Grandfather and Great Grandfather would earmark their pigs and turn em loose in the bottoms....Everyone did....U had your own mark....This was from the early 1900's to late 40's....
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Old March 6, 2013, 08:13 PM   #43
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DNS...My Grandfather and Great Grandfather would earmark their pigs and turn em loose in the bottoms....Everyone did....U had your own mark....This was from the early 1900's to late 40's....
That makes sense. I never asked Pop how he knew his hogs from his neighbors' hogs, but they did and every so often would return them to their rightful owners.

I will see him on Friday and try to remember to ask him how they marked their hogs. It will probably be like you said for your folks.

Quote:
They are a BIG problem in places, but you shouldn't pass global judgment on them for what they are in you state.
Even in states where hogs are considered to be game animals, they are noted as being problematic. That they haven't gotten as bad yet where you are is only a matter of luck and convenience. Nobody has managed to be able to control feral hogs anywhere in the country.

Where are you, BTW? What state?
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Old March 6, 2013, 08:27 PM   #44
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good 'ol boring Indiana

Brian, the comment was two separate things. My apologies, I should of worded that better. One was ground hogs. The friend's with the orchard have deer problems form the adjacent wildlife refuge. He hates deer, wishes they could all (ever single one in the state) be shot on sight and left to rot. I don't agree, I'd wager you don't either. But they hurt their livelihood, so he does. But he shouldn't go around lambasting people like some do with the hogs, that they need wiped out nation wide.

My point with the ground hogs was, they may not matter to some people at all. Feral Hogs are the pure evil Hitler of the animal world to a lot of people...and to them, ground hogs don't even compare, they'er a non issue....thy'er "non invasive"....recreational hunting. Tell that to my uncle that raises race horses. He's in an all out war with them, kills every one, every time he sees one. Lost a $19,000 animal to them. They breed like rabbits, they are out of control on his farm. Not saying you guys don't need all of them wiped out in your neck of the woods if it's that bad, but saying every single one, in ever state needs exterminated...well I don't agree.

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Old March 9, 2013, 07:20 PM   #45
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Helicopters are very expensive to buy and operate. I can also guarantee you that their insurance is outrageous engaging in this activity. You will pay for it. I am for eradicating these vermin by any means possible. If you don't agree, you definitely don't own a ranch in Texas. I've always had the fantasy of setting up a claymore next to a corn feeder and sitting in the stand with a video camera
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Old March 9, 2013, 10:38 PM   #46
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I got a hoot of a post from a lady who asserted that I and my fellow Americans should be accepting of the pigs, embrace them as part of the community. There's something called, like, the Society for the Protection of the Feral Pig. They have a picture of an old lady on a village lane, bending down to say hello to a pig that was passing by. I kid you not.

Anyway, I'm going to throw in one of my hog videos, cos we could use some levity at this point... Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t3Ev...YvdrQ&index=18

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Old March 10, 2013, 12:09 AM   #47
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Here in Texas hogs do produce a high price when it comes to destruction. Even though billions of taxpayers dollars I'm sure one day soon we'll have to get pigs tags too. It's all about how much money the State and Goverment can make extra from us and help out with the problem at the same time.
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Old March 10, 2013, 12:47 AM   #48
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I like hog hunting but I have a problem with indiscriminate shooting and letting them rot. I harvest as many as I can eat each year but usually won't waste any unless they're big and smelly. Helicopter hunting looks like a good time and a good way to attempt to control the population, it's just not for me. It's working well on at least a few big cattle stations in Australia so it ought to work here in TX as well.
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Old March 10, 2013, 01:04 AM   #49
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justplainpossum...good video....Just a taste of what we are dealin with.....


Quote:
I like hog hunting but I have a problem with indiscriminate shooting and letting them rot.
No problem as far as I'm concerned...They are out of control and are not even supposed to be here in the first place.....The coyotes and buzzards gotta eat too....(although I eat or give away all I can)
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Old March 10, 2013, 03:34 AM   #50
Lucas McCain
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quote;

The Nuge and Pigman killed over 450 pigs in 2 and a half days....This was on the ranch I hunt a part of....note: They were killed and the meat was donated to feed the hungry....Thats a lot of pork....

What kind of processing plant do you have that can handle that many hogs that quickly and in a short period of time? I notice in the picture where they are piled up in the back of the truck that due to the lack of blood on the end gate yhat they aren't field dressed and allowed to cool out as soon as possible. They must be some prime pork chops.
You got 450 hogs, and they average yield is 50 # of meat. That means you have 22,500 # of meat. 11-1/4 ton of meat. That take and awful big cooler to keep it in or a lot of food shelves. And say the processing costs a modest 20 cents a pound. That amounts to $4500.00. Who pays that bill?
Because they are wild hogs, what kind of parasites do they carry. When any thing gets over populated parasites become prevailant
I would have to think that a lot of these carcasses hoprfully end up in dog food plants, rendering and fertilizer plants and not the land fill.
And if that is the case this kind of practice will give the hunting community a black eye. Kind of like a whore house, its there but its not advertised.
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