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Old March 4, 2013, 10:32 PM   #1
troutcreek
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Removing a broken cleaning jag

I broke a cleaning jag off while cleaning my Land Pattern Musket this week. Like usual the jag broke right at the breech. It was clearly my own fault the jag was not fully threaded into the wiping stick and the 8x32 brass shaft on the cleaning jag couldn’t take the strain. Sloppy, but 20 minutes later the jag was out.
I know how I removed the jag, but what is the consensus on how it should be removed.

Take care
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:35 PM   #2
ScottRiqui
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The attached pictures are of a board with a hole in it, and what looks like black spray paint (or muzzle blast debris?) around the hole. Please tell me this didn't have anything to do with how you removed the jag??
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Old March 4, 2013, 11:41 PM   #3
Sport45
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A brass jag with the threads broken off?

I might have shot it out too, if I couldn't get enough compressed air behind it.

If you could adapt a grease zert to the nipple threads a grease gun full of oil would probably push something like that out nicely.
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Old March 5, 2013, 12:32 AM   #4
troutcreek
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ScottRiqui,
The photo is directly related to the process of removing the jag, and no that is not paint.
To be honest I was surprised that a little ffffg tricked in the vent hole would have enough force to penetrate the 5/8" plywood. Luckily I had sand behind it. My main concern is that the jag would bounce off the plywood.

Sport- The land pattern is a 75 cal flintlock musket, so threading a grease gun would be impractical. 42” of .750 diameter barrel would take a tube or 2 of grease.

20 minutes later I was cleaning the barrel with hot soapy water. So my method was quick and relatively easy. Can anyone see any safety issues?
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Old March 5, 2013, 12:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Sport- The land pattern is a 75 cal flintlock musket, so threading a grease gun would be impractical. 42” of .750 diameter barrel would take a tube or 2 of grease.
Nah, that's only about a cup and a half. I'd use oil, not grease. It'd be so much nicer to pour most of it out...
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:48 AM   #6
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After loading a ball with no powder I went and bought one of those CO2 ball blowers. Works like a charm.

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Old March 5, 2013, 09:04 AM   #7
Doc Hoy
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I have owned a total of...

...Four different black powder long arms.

In three of them I could remove the breach block.

In the fourth one I could not.

Some years ago I engaged in a conversation on this forum in which I touted the importance of being able to take the breachblock out. The concensus was that it is not important and in most rifles not easily doable with the tools/techniques available to the average shooter.

My thoughts are that for truly thorough cleaning and for just such instances as Troutcreek's easy removal of the breach is very convenient.

I don't mean to resurrect that thread since the matter was indeed put to rest. But in three of four of the rifles I have owned, it would have been a very simple matter to clear the obstruction.

I do acknowledge I am in the minority.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:12 AM   #8
deerslayer303
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Your removal process and mine are one in the same . I shot one out of the .54 GPR and NEVER found it. It was bookin when it came out of there. And I used just a little FFFG. Like I've said before, when they ban lead, I'm shooting patched cleaning jags! Stock up now! haha
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:20 AM   #9
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I just removed the breach plug from my Richmond Carbine.

The first thing I tried was to grip the barrel in my vice with leather. That earned me some vice marks in the side of my barrel. It could not grip the barrel tightly enough to enable removing the plug.

Then I used a couple of pieces of sheet metal as shims to protect the barrel. That worked fine - I was able to grip enough of the flats near the bolster to hold it firm and the sheet metal protected the barrel from the vice jaws.

The next problem was that the tang is tapered. I don't have any tapered wrenches so I used a crescent wrench very carefully so that the load was taken with the flat of one jaw fully against the flat of the tang, and a piece of sheet metal under the other jaw to keep it from gouging the side of the tang.

In this manner I was able to remove the plug.

In the end, it was highly unnecessary - the breach face was plenty clean and I could see no evidence of any coke build up at the junction.

I wrapped the threads with teflon tape and re-installed the plug, paying close attention to achieve an exact alignment with the top surface of the tang and the top surface of the barrel.

It was an interesting exercise to show that I could do it if I had to, but I think my cleaning regimen, utilizing a breach face scraper is good enough that pulling the breach plug for cleaning is probably not necessary, and it's a whole lot easier to blow things out with CO2 than to pull the plug.

I don't think I'll be pulling the plug again unless it's a crisis.

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Old March 5, 2013, 12:53 PM   #10
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The good old learning curve !!

Quote:
I don't think I'll be pulling the plug again unless it's a crisis.
Years ago, i pretty much had the same experience and learned a hard lesson. Today, i see the remnants of that and other sidelocks that I have encountered. Flinters are harder to clear than percussions but as noted, can be done. ....

Quote:
Can anyone see any safety issues?
Not really as I'm sure you have enough experience that you knew what precautions to take. ...

I personally have used this method and undoubtedly will again. However, I won't teach this method during our hunter safety classes because of the possible liabilities. Instead, I refer the students to the M/L's manual. I have removed jags, dry-balls and stuck rods. Lately i have been using the CO2 dichargers that maillemaker mentions and yes, they do work great !! ...

Be Safe !!!
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:09 PM   #11
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I shot a brass jag out of .54 smooth bore. Thing got stuck, or the cleaning patch did. I was a couple hours walk from home, so I pulled the nipple and put a little FFFg in the hole, replaced the nipple capped it and fired. Never did find the jag.
As for safety, I didn't see an issue at the time. Thinking back on it, I still don't see a problem. I used a tiny amount of powder. The stuck jag was smaller than the bore, the patch is forgiving.
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:18 PM   #12
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Pahoo, I also wouldn't recommend that to a newbie. I felt safe doing what I did. I agree with ya.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:50 PM   #13
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If I have to touch off a lightly loaded round I usually do it into a bunch of magazines stacked inside a cardboard box. A foot of magazines is a pretty good backstop and you can generally retrieve whatever you shot into it by thumbing through the pages.
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Old March 6, 2013, 11:12 AM   #14
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Jag problem

I've never done it, but a couple times one of my pals would grab my range rod to load their gun. The brass threads on a jag is a bad design. They would go to load, not get a straight push and snap off the jag @ the threads.

I took the broken one, cut the broken part off in a lathe, drilled & tapped it (10-32) and inserted a steele threaded rod to replace the brass threads. Never broken one since.



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Old March 6, 2013, 04:48 PM   #15
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^^^^^^^^ Well done.
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Old March 7, 2013, 09:15 AM   #16
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What you did is pretty much the first thing to try in such a circumstance. Dribble some powder behind the obstruction and shoot it out. You were lucky it was so simple.
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