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Old March 4, 2013, 11:35 AM   #26
Gaerek
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No sense in carrying if you're not loaded.
*sigh*

Although I agree you should carry with one in the chamber, I hate this attitude. An unchambered gun is better than no gun at all. There are situations where it might be impossible to deploy an unchambered gun, but there are also situations where you do have the time.

I will always advocate learning to carry Condition 1, but if someone has limited their choices to carrying Condition 3 or not carrying at all, I'll always go with Condition 3.
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Old March 4, 2013, 12:02 PM   #27
AH.74
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Of the pistols I own, I would consider it a failure or a defect if racking the slide in the normal manner did not load a round, but I have not owned any Kahr pistols. Is this normal for Kahrs, or is the OP being jerked around by the seller? If this is normal, doesn't it pretty much preclude leaving it unloaded or un-chambered for any self defense situation? (Not that I am advocating that, but there are a significant number of folks in the world who haven't learned that it is safe to keep a round chambered. This procedure, if normal, seems extraordinarily cumbersome.)
It would seem that the OP either did not get a manual with the gun purchase, or did not bother to take the time to read it thoroughly.

Kahr recommends dropping the slide using the slide catch to chamber a round. They recommend this because, especially when new, the recoil spring(s) are very stiff and there also is not a lot of slide travel distance- both of these things combine to sometimes cause feeding problems when using the slingshot method because the slide may not be brought fully back before being let go by the operator.

When the guns break in, the slingshot method becomes easier and less problematic. But I still more often than not use the manufacturer's recommended method; lock the slide back, drop the slide and chamber a round, drop the mag to top off, re-insert mag. Not a problem.
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Old March 4, 2013, 02:48 PM   #28
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It would seem that the OP either did not get a manual with the gun purchase, or did not bother to take the time to read it thoroughly.
+1

Sounds like he also needs to join the Kahr forum where all the little intricacies (like cleaning the mags and checking spring direction) are contained.
The owner's manual specifically states to use the slide stop to release it after inserting a fresh magazine and they do NOT recommend using the sling shot approach
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Old March 4, 2013, 03:28 PM   #29
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You don't NEED to use the slide stop, but doing so is an idiot proof way of dropping the slide. You CAN NOT "ride the slide" as you chamber it. You have to pull it all the way back and then release it cleanly without any forward movement.

As stated above, this problem diminishes over time.

The only time I do not chamber a round is if I am OCing in a demonstration and I am worried about someone trying to grab my gun. Surrounded by other people OCing rifles I don't feel much need to have my pistol immediately functional.
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Old March 4, 2013, 05:18 PM   #30
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Kahr recommends dropping the slide using the slide catch to chamber a round
Thanks, AH.74. It's a lousy day when you don't learn something, and you just made my day better.

That requirement seems cumbersome enough to preclude Israeli style carry.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:11 PM   #31
JRH6856
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The belt is an american made leather belt. Only thing I hate about wearinf it on my belt is when you use the restroom and undue your belt it pulls and sometimes allow the belt to twist.
A belt is not necessarily a gunbelt, though a gunbelt is a belt.

A leather belt is not necessarily and gunbelt, though gunbelt could be leather.

An American made belt is not necessarily a gunbelt, though a gunbelt could be American made.

A gunbelt should be wide enough that it fits snugly through the loops or clips of your holster. This keeps the holster in place and in position. 1.75" seems to be the standard.

A gunbelt should be stiff so that it can carry and support the weight of the gun without twisting or collapsing. If you can fold a 1.75"-2" wide belt across its width, it is not stiff enough. (I actually saw a $12 Faded Glory belt today at WalMart that almost passed this test but it was only 1.5" wide. )

Color is your choice, but if it is the same color as the holster or holster clips, the holster will be less likely to attract attention than a higher contrast combination.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:32 PM   #32
shootniron
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There are situations where it might be impossible to deploy an unchambered gun, but there are also situations where you do have the time.
Please share with the forum, how we develop our situational awareness to know which situation we will encounter...so that we can be prepared.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:34 PM   #33
cen
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I don't carry chambered
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:03 PM   #34
ltc444
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First I do not trust mechanical safeties. I have encountered to many weapons were the safety did not work.

Second all of my pistols have exposed hammers.

Third all of my regular carry holsters are leather and have thumb breaks. The strap lays between the hammer and firing pen. In case of the hammer falls for some reason the hammer strikes the leather and not the firing pin.

Note: When I carry a revolver I carry with an empty chamber under the hammer. When I carry cap and ball I rest the hammer between the nipples and load all six chambers.

One of my pistols has a hammer drop safety. I carry this pistol with the safety off. The others I carry with the safety on.
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:41 PM   #35
BigD_in_FL
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Note: When I carry a revolver I carry with an empty chamber under the hammer. When I carry cap and ball I rest the hammer between the nipples and load all six chambers.
Except for some older SA revolvers, the rest have a transfer bar that can't hit the primer if you drop it on the hammer, so an empty chamber is unnecessary
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:47 PM   #36
shootniron
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BigDinFL

Except for some older SA revolvers, the rest have a transfer bar that can't hit the primer if you drop it on the hammer, so an empty chamber is unnecessary
ltc444 said he did not trust mechanical things...transfer bar is mechanical.
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Old March 4, 2013, 11:24 PM   #37
JRH6856
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ltc444 said he did not trust mechanical things...transfer bar is mechanical.
As is a gun. So why does he carry one?
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Old March 4, 2013, 11:33 PM   #38
shootniron
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So why does he carry one?
You tell me...makes no sense to me, either.
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Old March 5, 2013, 02:56 AM   #39
dakota1820
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I mentioned above that I knew tne right way to load and chambe the kahr. Although I didnt initially. The gun is simply drfective. Also the holster is a belt holster its made of nylon polyester stuff does does seem pretty sturdy . Its made by blackhawk . My beltmmay only be 1.5 not sure but ill check.
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:48 AM   #40
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1911 condition 1.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:14 AM   #41
Vurtle
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I do not carry chambered. I am comfortable to know that at least I have the gun. I hear too many stories of accidental discharges that result in lost loved ones. The last one I heard was of a guy climbing into his pickup and had just set his pistol on his console. As he got in he accidentally pulled the trigger and it shot his seven year old in the chest. Yes he made some bad choices in how he did things, but it still happens. I can live with the fact that I may not be able to draw my weapon and rack the slide in time when I think the odds of an accidental discharge are higher than the odds of being a target of a criminal. I could not live with the knowledge that I accidentally killed one of my kids.

I am betting that those who have accidentally shot themselves or their loved ones did not think it would happen to them.

Last edited by Vurtle; March 5, 2013 at 08:19 AM.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:34 AM   #42
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Vurtle, such tales remind how little training and presence of mind some gun owners actually have. With carrying comes a great deal of responsibility for knowing where your gun is and what one is doing with it.

Some people probably shouldn't carry, because they aren't ready for the commitment.

I was a little nervous at first about carrying a chambered round (around 25-30 years ago)...until I had gained some experience and familiarity. Now I can't imagine having to fumble around with chambering a round in a crisis situation... a delay that might get me or someone I love killed.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:40 AM   #43
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I hear too many stories of accidental discharges that result in lost loved ones. The last one I heard was of a guy climbing into his pickup and had just set his pistol on his console. As he got in he accidentally pulled the trigger and it shot his seven year old in the chest.
That was not an accidental discharge, it was pure negligence. If this guy had any sense, he would have used a good holster and the gun would have remained in it. A gun that is handled often is more liable to being discharged negligently than one that stays in a quality holster.

Some additional training is definitely required on your part.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:51 AM   #44
AH.74
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I mentioned above that I knew tne right way to load and chambe the kahr. Although I didnt initially. The gun is simply drfective.
Have you tried using the proper method before declaring the gun "simply defective?"
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:54 AM   #45
Vurtle
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I agree it should have been holstered. But what I am saying is no one that has an accidental discharge thought it would happen to them. I am not even saying that everyone should carry Israeli style. I am saying my comfort comes in knowing I reduce my chances of accidental discharge and that I still have a weapon to fight back with. Why do you think I need training for my opinion that accidental discharges happen? I just happened to give you an example of someone not thinking safely for that moment of laziness and now his son is dead. I had one friend that was hunting and had a holstered weapon. Somehow the brush managed to work its way into the holster and he now has a bullet in his leg. I guess training would have helped him too. Maybe you need training that you may not know if someone is sufficiently trained.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:56 AM   #46
AH.74
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The last one I heard was of a guy climbing into his pickup and had just set his pistol on his console. As he got in he accidentally pulled the trigger and it shot his seven year old in the chest. Yes he made some bad choices in how he did things, but it still happens.
If you think about this you will see how full of holes the story really is. And that's not how I heard it happened.

Follow proper safety rules. Become comfortable with the way a gun is designed and intended to be carried- which is with a round in the chamber.

I do not let others' stupidity dictate what I do.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:58 AM   #47
AH.74
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I had one friend that was hunting and had a holstered weapon. Somehow the brush managed to work its way into the holster and he now has a bullet in his leg. I guess training would have helped him too. Maybe you need training that you may not know if someone is sufficiently trained.
And you actually believe that ridiculous explanation?

Were you there to witness it? Are you sure there's not any chance that it happened in some other manner?
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:21 AM   #48
Vurtle
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I agree with you. As too safety, I would think it would be obvious to my intent on safety.
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:33 AM   #49
allaroundhunter
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Why do you think I need training for my opinion that accidental discharges happen? I just happened to give you an example of someone not thinking safely for that moment of laziness and now his son is dead. I had one friend that was hunting and had a holstered weapon. Somehow the brush managed to work its way into the holster and he now has a bullet in his leg. I guess training would have helped him too. Maybe you need training that you may not know if someone is sufficiently trained.
More training would have helped your friend. If he had better training, he probably would have had a better holster, and brush doesn't just "work its way in" to a quality holster. If you are trying to say that he was trained enough and that this was a freak accident, I will tell you that it was not. I *highly* doubt that brush getting into the holster is what actually caused this. It is more likely that he had drawn his handgun and then didn't pay any attention when reholstering and caught some clothing in the trigger guard.... Yes, that is a training issue.

Quote:
Follow proper safety rules. Become comfortable with the way a gun is designed and intended to be carried- which is with a round in the chamber.

I do not let others' stupidity dictate what I do.
+1
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Old March 5, 2013, 09:33 AM   #50
AH.74
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As too safety, I would think it would be obvious to my intent on safety.
Yes, safety is first and foremost. Always.

But- if the intent on being safe is the potential cost of not being able to operate your pistol when you really need it, the risk outweighs the reward. So to speak.
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