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Old February 27, 2013, 06:12 PM   #1
dakota.potts
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Can you build an automatic weapon for personal use?

I'm aware that automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 cannot be passed to or from civilians. But I was curious if you can manufacture one on your own for personal use as long as it's not being transferred. This whole 3D printing business got me thinking, it may be possible that it opens up the door for people to get into automatic weapons if there is a way to do it legally.
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Old February 27, 2013, 06:17 PM   #2
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Nope. The law requires that you file a Form 1 to make an NFA item and BATFE will not approve legal manufacture of a machinegun since it can no longer be registered. Of course, illegal manufacturing might be done, but we all know that no one would ever violate the law; if they did that, gun control laws wouldn't work.

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Old February 27, 2013, 06:19 PM   #3
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Can you build an automatic weapon for personal use?

If you manufacture it today, then it's manufactured after '86. You'll need licensing and SOT's to manufacture it also unless you like living in small, secure, confined communities.
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Old February 27, 2013, 10:30 PM   #4
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lol O NOES 3D printing! Cheap plastic that breaks easily!

C'mon anyone with sufficient knowledge and will could make an illegal FA weapon. This 3D printing stuff is just media hyped nonsense.
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Old February 27, 2013, 11:15 PM   #5
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Perhaps not so much hype as some may think.

At SHOT Show 2012, there was a company offering 3D printing of metal parts. Admittedly there was some processing required after the part was printed, but that processing was not particularly complex compared to operating a mill or lathe. The process, at least at the time I spoke with them, wasn't capable of equalling heat-treated steel for strength, but the parts are durable enough to stand up to the rigors required of many firearm parts.

Even plastic printed parts can be surprisingly durable if properly designed. If no one else does, firearm world, at least, should understand by now that properly designed plastic firearm parts can stand up to a surprising amount of use.
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Old February 28, 2013, 09:03 AM   #6
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build it and "they" will come.
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Old February 28, 2013, 03:26 PM   #7
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"build it and 'they' will come" "They" meaning the BATFE.

Silvrjeepr, licensed manufacturers can manufacture machineguns, but only for the military, LE or export. Their products cannot be sold to individuals nor can they make a machinegun for dakota potts or anyone else.

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Old February 28, 2013, 05:50 PM   #8
dakota.potts
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Obviously they can't sell it for civilians.

But I guess my question is, if I am a business (let's say for simplicity a one person business) with the proper licensing, can I build an automatic firearm for personal use so long as it is not transferred? Or would that be considered a transfer from the business to the person.

Just an idle question, I definitely don't plan on making a living building guns and I definitely don't plan to play games with the BATFE.
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Old February 28, 2013, 06:39 PM   #9
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You can, but you will go to prison if caught. Need license. You can however get a class III dealer license and obtain non-transferable TII dealer "samples". Can only sell them back to a class III dealer but can have a lot of fun in the mean time.
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:33 PM   #10
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At SHOT Show 2012, there was a company offering 3D printing of metal parts.
Didn't that used to be called milling?
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:17 PM   #11
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Can you build an automatic weapon for personal use?

For some "surprisingly durable" printed parts check this out.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/...3d-printed-car

It's a different industry, true. But the technology is completely transferable. Someone mentioned an outfit printing metal parts at the show. I suspect it's this technology.

So even if you can't build an NFA receiver, you could certainly print a few lowers using this.
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Old March 2, 2013, 09:52 PM   #12
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My reply did not fully cover the question, and I apologize. A licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms may build a machinegun for "demonstration" purposes and for potential sale to LE or the military and keep it in stock for "trials". It cannot be sold to an individual, but BATFE insists that an FFL of any kind is a business license, so a licensed manufacturer who makes guns for his personal use might be deemed to be not doing business and his license could be revoked. If that happens, he might be allowed to transfer any guns he made to another SOT or to an authorized agency. Otherwise, they would be seized. As you gather, a lot of ad hoc judgements are involved in that sort of thing.

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Old March 2, 2013, 11:04 PM   #13
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Didn't that used to be called milling?
Try milling one of these shapes created by a 3-D metal printing process.





Here's the company that does the printing.

http://www.exone.com/materialization...lization/metal
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Old March 2, 2013, 11:20 PM   #14
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If you get a federal class 3 license, then yes. The unfortunate truth is, they are fairly hard to obtain.
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Old March 2, 2013, 11:31 PM   #15
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Actually, it is a firearms MANUFACTURER'S license (Type 7 or Type 10 FFL) plus a Class 2 Special Occupational Tax stamp.

But, as I mentioned, that entitles you to do business as a NFA manufacturer, not to make machineguns for yourself for the fun of it. BATFE has been fairly lenient, though, as long as the manufacturer actually engages in business (making and selling suppressors and SBR, for example), and has not stopped licensees from making auto firearms ostensibly for sale or demonstration to law enforcement.

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Old March 3, 2013, 12:04 AM   #16
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...not to make machineguns for yourself for the fun of it.
Correct. And when you are no longer in business, your license goes away along with any machineguns you made while you were licensed/in business.
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Old March 3, 2013, 12:12 AM   #17
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If you have a class 3 ffl, you can have full autos for personal use.
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Old March 3, 2013, 12:19 AM   #18
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Anyone who lives in a state that allows it, who wants to do the background check, pay the tax and pay what it costs to buy a transferrable full auto firearm can own full autos for personal use--without any licensing at all.

However, that is not what the thread is about. The thread is about MAKING full auto firearms for personal use.

The only way one can make a full auto firearm legally is to be licensed properly. The only way to be licensed LEGALLY is to demonstrate that you are in the proper line of business. The BATF is not going to allow people to get all the proper licensing just to play at making machineguns--licensees have to be able to show that they are actually in business.

Then, they can make all the machineguns they want. But they can only keep them and use them as long as they remain licensed, and they can only remain licensed as long as they are in business.

Most people would not define that as "making full autos for personal ownership/use" because that "ownership/use" is only allowed because of the licensing and the licensing is only allowed because the person is in a particular business. Business use is sort of the opposite of personal use.
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Old March 3, 2013, 01:13 AM   #19
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Can you build an automatic weapon for personal use?

Yeah, and we should be taking the position that full auto rifles are safer in the hands in dumb KRIMINALS since they'll use up their ammo faster. Therefore the registry closure should be reversed.

I remember as a kid the booths at the county fair had full auto .22 shorts with a magazine of about 40 rounds per turn to shoot all red out of he target.

You could do a lot better shooing bursts than clamping the trigger.

Last edited by mrbatchelor; March 3, 2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Old March 3, 2013, 02:56 AM   #20
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Those shooting gallery guns were BB guns that ran on compressed air.
They were not .22 short.
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Old March 3, 2013, 03:09 AM   #21
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Yeah, build it you may get the opportunity to be the next Carbine Williams...you may have to google the name to get it.
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Old March 3, 2013, 05:51 PM   #22
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I think the questions is not can or could I build, but is it legal to build. You can do a lot of things-but they could lead to trouble.
Short answer yes you can but it would make you a felon unless you have the proper federal lic..
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:47 PM   #23
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"If you have a class 3 ffl, you can have full autos for personal use."

Nope. If you are in business with an FFL 01 and an Class 3 SOT stamp, full autos that you have in your business stock for sale to the military or LE are not yours, they belong to the business. If you lose your license or go out of business, you can't keep them as personal property or transfer them to yourself because as an individual you can't own them.

(Yes, you can "test" or "demonstrate" or "function check" guns you have in stock, but again that is business use, not personal use. )

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Old March 6, 2013, 03:21 PM   #24
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Nope. If you are in business with an FFL 01 and an Class 3 SOT stamp, full autos that you have in your business stock for sale to the military or LE are not yours, they belong to the business. If you lose your license or go out of business, you can't keep them as personal property or transfer them to yourself because as an individual you can't own them.
True, if you are speaking of post-'86 "samples." If the are pre-'86 transferables, you can keep them. But then you really didn't need the FFL for a transferable MG.

If you have an 07FFL (manufacturer) and Class 2 SOT (Class 2 is for manufacturers), you can manufacture a full auto, but then it has to be given up or destroyed if you give up your FFL.
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Old March 6, 2013, 06:47 PM   #25
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The thread started out to be about manufacturing an automatic weapon, the on to who could do so, then to dealing in auto weapons, and somewhere I got confused. A class 3 dealer can have an automatic weapon for his personal use if it was registered before 1986, but so can just about anyone else.

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