Lead Bullets, Modern Firearms-Best Caliber?

sunaj · March 3, 2013, 03:26 PM

I got to thinking after perusing a thread on lead bullets in modern rifles,
since we are limited on velocity with lead bullets, we must limit our rounds to 1200-2200 depending on if you use lead/hardened lead/ gas check,
so my question is what do you think the best rifle/caliber setup would work best if you were limited to lead projectiles, who knows in the future the only bullets you can find is what you can make
Thanks
sunaj

UtopiaTexasG19 · March 3, 2013, 03:54 PM

I vote for the Blunderbuss.

dahermit · March 3, 2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

so my question is what do you think the best rifle/caliber setup would work best

The modern cast lead bullet rifle shooters look for small capacity 30 caliber rifles. Namely, the bolt-action 30-30's, .308's, and 7.62x37's. They usually load them to about 1600 max down to 1100 fps. They also use modern techniques like indexing (cast bullets are not round), and nose/bore riding bullets. However, there are many different classes (small bore, large bore, etc.), that do not center on .30 caliber bullets and relatively small cases.
The best advice I can give, is to go to the Cast Lead Bullet Association's web site and learn from them. If you choose to become a member, you get the Association's magazine with a matrix of data used in their frequent competitions, including bullet, alloy, sizing, lube, powder, case, primer. The magazine is named The Fouling Shot.

chris in va · March 3, 2013, 10:50 PM

Definitely something big bore, like a 45. That way it could be loaded hot, or mild and still pack a punch.

sunaj · March 3, 2013, 10:54 PM

Yeah
i choose a 45-70 on the heavy side and a 25-06 for lighter work

Boomer58cal · March 4, 2013, 03:43 AM

94 win in .44 mag. I love mine.

kraigwy · March 4, 2013, 10:03 AM

I shoot cast bullets in most of my rifles, normally at reduced velocities but there are some that don't require reducing the velocity.

As mentioned the 45-70 is one.

Another good choice is the 30-40 Krag. It normally pushed a 200 grn jacketed bullet at 2000 fps. Cast bullets can be pushed that fast without any problems, using the same sight settings I used for jacketed bullets.

The 458 Win Mag is another.

Just thumb through a reloading manual that gives both jacketed and cast bullet loads. There are many more.

I think people are missing a lot by not trying cast bullets in their rifles. Not to mention the money savings.

FrankenMauser · March 4, 2013, 08:14 PM

I limit cast bullets to the maximum achievable velocity of the cartridge.

If I had to pick a "best cartridge" for cast bullet use....
(The rifle is secondary.)

I would recommend .45-70/.458 Win Mag/.450 Marlin for other people, due to bullet selection and availability, and the amount of available load data.

...but I would take .444 Marlin, myself. .444 Marlin is a little more efficient, even if not known for attaining the same max velocities, and the difference in bore size is negligible. (400-450 gr bullets at 2,200+ fps is a perfectly attainable goal - exceeding .45-70 and .450 Marlin performance, coming close to .458 Win Mag, and nearly matching .450-400 3.25" Nitro Express.)

trg42wraglefragle · March 4, 2013, 10:39 PM

303 Lee Enfield, because they are cool. The SMLE is the best looking one, with a sword bayonet.

Might need the bayonet for if they ban lead too.

bigwrench · March 4, 2013, 10:58 PM

I would say the 357 maximum is one of the top do all chamberings and makes a real neat cast boolet launcher. And, can also chamber 357 mag. and 38 special. Any quality single shot would be a good rifle for this round excluding H&R handi's with micro groove rifling.

tahoe2 · March 5, 2013, 01:20 AM

I use my 375 winchester with 240-250 grn 38-55 bullets, sized to .377 with a gas check and push them to 2000 fps, I can put 5 into 2" @ 50 yards and 10 into 4" @ 100.
I outfitted the Marlin with a Williams reciever peep sight and gold bead up front. However the 375 winchester is hard to find and not for the timid, but they are great fun to shoot.
But I would guess the good ol 30-30 would be the easy choice

**Art Eatman** · March 5, 2013, 11:19 AM

I used to load 169-grain gas checks ahead of 20 grains of 2400 for a plinker load in my '06. About 1,800 ft/sec.

sundog · March 5, 2013, 11:43 AM

32 Winchester Special. Most were produced with 16 twist barrels which are very conducive to cast bullets. In fact, accuracy and velocity can be matched (and exceeded) in comparison to jacketed. I know this from experience. Both the RCBS and Ranch Dog bullets work well. Another good one is 35 Remington.

WIN1886 · March 5, 2013, 06:11 PM

I use cast bullets in my 45-70 , 44 magnum & special , 357 magnum , 38 special......I suppose my little 1892 short rifle in 357 mag. using 158 to 180 gr hard cast bullets might be the ticket in hard times ! That and a few bricks of .22 long rifle ammo would be handy !

sc928porsche · March 5, 2013, 07:06 PM

If you are thinking about hunting, the the 45/70 would probably be best. That usually limits you to the lever action marlin which is a good solid firearm. 400 and 500gr. pills will definately get the job done.

nikdfish · March 5, 2013, 07:49 PM

Lots of folks using cast lead in 300 AAC Blackout loads on an AR15 platform. Common weights range from 130 grains to 245 grains.

Nick

Daekar · March 6, 2013, 04:55 PM

I think we really need to know what this "best" cartridge is being expected to do before a meaningful suggestion can be made. As you've noticed, the power-class of suggested chamberings is all over the place... what are you going to use this thing for?

armoredman · March 6, 2013, 05:48 PM

I am the odd man out, the weird one in any bunch - I load cast lead in 7.62x39mm, 160 grain Lee's and 129 grain NOE's, cast by yours truly.

WIN1886 · March 7, 2013, 06:50 PM

At least , what I pay locally from a source for bulk 400 and 350 grain cast bullets it just makes it so much more economical to shoot the 45-70 rifles once you obtain the brass and stuff to reload ! I can not see paying the ridiculous prices for factory ammo for target duty and just general fun with the big caliber rifles ! I do know folks that have gone several deer seasons of hunting with one box of shells.......nothing wrong with that but I like to shoot way too much for that to work for me !

March 3, 2013, 03:26 PM	#1
sunaj Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2013 Location: California Posts: 84	Lead Bullets, Modern Firearms-Best Caliber? I got to thinking after perusing a thread on lead bullets in modern rifles, since we are limited on velocity with lead bullets, we must limit our rounds to 1200-2200 depending on if you use lead/hardened lead/ gas check, so my question is what do you think the best rifle/caliber setup would work best if you were limited to lead projectiles, who knows in the future the only bullets you can find is what you can make Thanks sunaj

March 4, 2013, 03:43 AM	#6
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 359	94 win in .44 mag. I love mine. __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. In the U.S sticks kill twice as many people a year as guns. Doctor malpractice kills 12 times as many people a year as people with guns do.

March 4, 2013, 10:03 AM	#7
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 8,697	I shoot cast bullets in most of my rifles, normally at reduced velocities but there are some that don't require reducing the velocity. As mentioned the 45-70 is one. Another good choice is the 30-40 Krag. It normally pushed a 200 grn jacketed bullet at 2000 fps. Cast bullets can be pushed that fast without any problems, using the same sight settings I used for jacketed bullets. The 458 Win Mag is another. Just thumb through a reloading manual that gives both jacketed and cast bullet loads. There are many more. I think people are missing a lot by not trying cast bullets in their rifles. Not to mention the money savings. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Oct '78 Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 4, 2013, 08:14 PM	#8
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Location: 1B ID Posts: 5,415	I limit cast bullets to the maximum achievable velocity of the cartridge. If I had to pick a "best cartridge" for cast bullet use.... (The rifle is secondary.) I would recommend .45-70/.458 Win Mag/.450 Marlin for other people, due to bullet selection and availability, and the amount of available load data. ...but I would take .444 Marlin, myself. .444 Marlin is a little more efficient, even if not known for attaining the same max velocities, and the difference in bore size is negligible. (400-450 gr bullets at 2,200+ fps is a perfectly attainable goal - exceeding .45-70 and .450 Marlin performance, coming close to .458 Win Mag, and nearly matching .450-400 3.25" Nitro Express.) __________________ "Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."

March 5, 2013, 01:20 AM	#11
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 388	lead bullet rifle I use my 375 winchester with 240-250 grn 38-55 bullets, sized to .377 with a gas check and push them to 2000 fps, I can put 5 into 2" @ 50 yards and 10 into 4" @ 100. I outfitted the Marlin with a Williams reciever peep sight and gold bead up front. However the 375 winchester is hard to find and not for the timid, but they are great fun to shoot. But I would guess the good ol 30-30 would be the easy choice Last edited by tahoe2; March 5, 2013 at 01:35 AM.

March 3, 2013, 03:54 PM	#2
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 723	I vote for the Blunderbuss.

March 3, 2013, 10:50 PM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,723	Definitely something big bore, like a 45. That way it could be loaded hot, or mild and still pack a punch.

March 3, 2013, 10:54 PM	#5
sunaj Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2013 Location: California Posts: 84	Yeah i choose a 45-70 on the heavy side and a 25-06 for lighter work

March 4, 2013, 10:39 PM	#9
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 638	303 Lee Enfield, because they are cool. The SMLE is the best looking one, with a sword bayonet. Might need the bayonet for if they ban lead too.

March 4, 2013, 10:58 PM	#10
bigwrench Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Location: foot of the uintas Posts: 139	I would say the 357 maximum is one of the top do all chamberings and makes a real neat cast boolet launcher. And, can also chamber 357 mag. and 38 special. Any quality single shot would be a good rifle for this round excluding H&R handi's with micro groove rifling.

March 5, 2013, 11:19 AM	#12
Art Eatman Staff Lead Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 21,047	I used to load 169-grain gas checks ahead of 20 grains of 2400 for a plinker load in my '06. About 1,800 ft/sec. __________________ You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!

March 5, 2013, 11:43 AM	#13
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 719	32 Winchester Special. Most were produced with 16 twist barrels which are very conducive to cast bullets. In fact, accuracy and velocity can be matched (and exceeded) in comparison to jacketed. I know this from experience. Both the RCBS and Ranch Dog bullets work well. Another good one is 35 Remington. __________________ safety first

March 5, 2013, 06:11 PM	#14
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 315	I use cast bullets in my 45-70 , 44 magnum & special , 357 magnum , 38 special......I suppose my little 1892 short rifle in 357 mag. using 158 to 180 gr hard cast bullets might be the ticket in hard times ! That and a few bricks of .22 long rifle ammo would be handy ! Last edited by WIN1886; March 5, 2013 at 10:43 PM.

March 5, 2013, 07:06 PM	#15
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,325	If you are thinking about hunting, the the 45/70 would probably be best. That usually limits you to the lever action marlin which is a good solid firearm. 400 and 500gr. pills will definately get the job done. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

March 5, 2013, 07:49 PM	#16
nikdfish Member Join Date: August 17, 2007 Posts: 97	Lots of folks using cast lead in 300 AAC Blackout loads on an AR15 platform. Common weights range from 130 grains to 245 grains. Nick

March 6, 2013, 04:55 PM	#17
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	I think we really need to know what this "best" cartridge is being expected to do before a meaningful suggestion can be made. As you've noticed, the power-class of suggested chamberings is all over the place... what are you going to use this thing for? __________________ "... I cannot but conclude the bulk of your [politicians] to be the most pernicious race of little odious vermin that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the earth." ~ Jonathon Swift

March 6, 2013, 05:48 PM	#18
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,450	I am the odd man out, the weird one in any bunch - I load cast lead in 7.62x39mm, 160 grain Lee's and 129 grain NOE's, cast by yours truly. __________________ http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.

March 7, 2013, 06:50 PM	#19
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 315	At least , what I pay locally from a source for bulk 400 and 350 grain cast bullets it just makes it so much more economical to shoot the 45-70 rifles once you obtain the brass and stuff to reload ! I can not see paying the ridiculous prices for factory ammo for target duty and just general fun with the big caliber rifles ! I do know folks that have gone several deer seasons of hunting with one box of shells.......nothing wrong with that but I like to shoot way too much for that to work for me !