Safety query fm newbie 38 spl reloader

[jambrdly]

Hello:

I have been reloading rifle ammo for over 40 years but I have never reloaded pistol cartridges before.

My question is: how critical is overall length in maintaining safe pressure in the 38 special?

I am using the 47th Lyman manual as a reloading guide. It lists 1.55" as the correct overall length for a 158 bullet over 2.8 to 4 grains of Bullseye powder. I am using a 158 gr bullet but it is a semi-wadcutter which has a different profile and when I try to seat the bullet to 1.55" the grooves are visible.

I am planning on using 3 grains of Bullseye. What would the minimum and maximum safe overall length be?

Thanks

JCB

[zxcvbob]

OAL is not very important at all in .38 Special unless you are doing something weird like loading "+P" with full wadcutters. It's a long case with a lot of volume and it's loaded to fairly-low pressure.

Let the bullets tell you how long to load them (crimp them in the crimp groove)

[jambrdly]

Do I have to crimp them? they are lead bullets and do not have a cannelure.

[Misssissippi Dave]

Normally lead bullets will have a groove to crimp into. Some even have two. You can crimp there. When shooting specials in a .357 mag. the OAL matters even less. You want to have a crimp mainly to keep the bullet from walking out of the case while you are shooting the other rounds in the cylinder. If they move too much forward they can lock the cylinder up and that becomes a big problem.

What type of bullet are you planning to use? If it is something different you could even post a picture. Any bullet made for the caliber could be used and the place to crimp just might be different. At least with lead it is easier to crimp most of them compared to a smooth sided jacketed bullet.

In general I crimp where I need to and just work up the load from there.

[chiefr]

Been reloading this one for over 40 years. My standard load for 155-158 gr SWC is between 2.8 & 3.0 Bullseye. When using over 3.0gr the groups get larger.
I crimp the bullets with a medium but noticeable crimp in the cannelure.
I have never been concerned about OAL in 38Spl unless using 180gr or longer bullets.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by jambrdly

I have been reloading rifle ammo for over 40 years but I have never reloaded pistol cartridges before.

My question is: how critical is overall length in maintaining safe pressure in the 38 special?

Excellent question. Thanks for asking our advice.

Short answer:

If the length of the bullet (the slug itself) of a SWC (semi-wadcutter) is less than the length of the same weight RN (round-nose) expect it to lke a shorter OAL by the amount of the difference.

Set the BASE of the SWC bullet to the same depth as the RN bullet if there is no groove in which to crimp the case mouth. If there is a crimping groove, set the bullet there and adjust your powder charge accordingly. (Start low, work up.)

Long answer:

OAL is important for two reasons. 1) Fitting your firearm (not too long, nor too short to not cycle through the action or bind up a cylinder or have the bullet jam up against the rifling). 2) as a proxy measurement for the volume inside the cartridge.

see this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...29#post8491429

What you are trying to set when you set COAL (Cartridge Overall Length also known as COL and OAL) is the volume under the bullet. Less free volume, more pressure. But the volume/pressure relationship not proportional.

What really matters is the volume UNDER the base of the bullet. The OAL is merely a proxy measurement.

Note: As an experienced reloader, I expect you know all about the volume thing, but have started with no assumptions about any others who might read my post. If my post seems simplistic, please understand that loaders of all experience levels may read this.

Since your are dealing with a straight-walled case here, the measure you want is the distance from the top of the web (the bottom of the inside of the cartridge case) to the base of the bullet. If you have a thicker web, you have less volume. Fortunately, most cases have a web that is pretty uniform, though military brass is reputed to be thicker. You can get an idea of the variation by weighing cases. Since the cases outside dimensions are VERY uniform, heavier cases mean you have less volume in the cavity. But, as I said, there is not much variation here, even between different manufacturers. But something to be aware of if you are pushing the performance envelope or trying for extreme accuracy.

Bullets of the same weight, however, DO vary in length. This can make a difference in volume, and thus, pressure. A hollowpoint bullet with an extremely large hollow will be longer than one with a small hollow. A flat point bullet will be shorter than one with an elongated round nose.

So, take some time to research (or measure) the length of the various bullets/slugs you might use and subtract that figure from the OAL If you substitute a bullet of the same weight into a load recipe you should strive to make that (under-bullet) dimension for your bullet the same as the published recipe's (under-bullet) dimension.

Just remember that it is the volume UNDER the bullet that is the critical dimension for pressure and the length is just a proxy to tell you that.

Fortunately, we can control for many of the variables and we START LOW AND WORK UP our loads for each of our firearms, looking for signs of pressure and erratic behavior along the way.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

[Sevens]

It's been my experience that .38 Special is (BY FAR) the best choice for a starting handloader. Seeing as how you are NOT a starting handloader, it will just have to suffice for being the first handgun cartridge you reload for.

COAL is always important to keep in mind in handgun rounds, but some rounds MUCH more than others. .38 Special is -NOT- one of the more important ones.

If you are shooting a modern .38 Special revolver of recent build & quality, it'll handle well more than any .38 load is ever going to give it. And just as often, we are rolling .38 ammo to be fired through a .357 Magnum revolver. The margin for safety here is phenomenally large. Not so large we get stupid or careless, but large just the same.

Also in my experience -- one of the mistakes you can more easily make with .38 Special is being over cautious. No, really. I've been at the bench for a decent length of time now and I still refer back to the WORST mistake I've ever made, and while it was entirely my fault, it was all the result of being over-cautious with the .38 Special in a .357 Magnum revolver.

Don't forget that not only do you have a large case, low pressure and a platform that can handle much more -- you have that flash gap between the cylinder and throat and that gap sucks energy from any/every load. And if you are being too cautious, it'll suck energy out that you need to make that over-light load WORK and get the hell out of the barrel.

I've been there, I've done it. With all lead bullets, the risk is minimal because they offer less resistance and are easier to pound out if you do screw up. But if you go to plated or jacketed, please don't fall victim to being far too cautious in .38 Special. Because that is a recipe for sticking a bullet which is a tremendous pain in the rear, but can then be REALLY dangerous if somehow, you don't realize it.

[m&p45acp10+1]

No need to hard crimp them. Just enough to remove the flare should do for standard pressure loads. As far as length goes as long as you can get them to chamber it should work just fine. No need to super deep seat them.

[BiggDaddyBrown]

I have a Question? Dose any one have the load data from the Sierra Load Book on 38spcl and 38spcl+p, I'm looking for there most accurate load info it would save me some time and $$$$ and it would be a great help thanks.

[mikld]

Some very good in depth answers. I always crimp in the groove/cannalure for revolver ammo disregarding listed OAL. I believe the results given in a reloading manual aren't necessarily an exact recipe/formula, but just what was used by the test techs to achieve the listed results. Ie.; "We used xxx 158 gr. bullet loaded to iiii OAL, with 9.0 gr. yyy powder and zzz primers and got aaaa PSI, and in out test gun bbbbb fps." Did that make sense? As much as a formula, the loads listed are reports of what was used safely...

Hey jes my thinkin'/experience...

[Revolver1]

Load 'em to the crimp groove! The beauty of the 38spl is you can't screw it up!

[jersurf101]

I just load lead bullets to the crimp groove. I never used to crimp .38 special, but now I do for the lever action. My uncrimped 120 grn lrnfp over bullseye are some of the best loads i have found.

[g.willikers]

Grooves, but no cannelure?
Eh?
Just remove the flare and see if the rounds easily enter the chambers.
If not, crimp a little more, but only enough to allow easy loading.
A taper crimp die might be better, than a roll crimp die.

[zxcvbob]

Starting place for adjusting a flare die: snug it die down pretty tight against the mouth of a fired case that has not been resized.

Starting place for adjusting a crimp die: snug it down pretty tight against the mouth of a freshly-resized case.

This works with taper or roll crimp dies, and it doesn't overwork the case mouth. It also might not be quite enough crimp for magnum revolvers or tube magazines; just depends on the load.

[Viper225]

A light crimp or no crimp may work well for light target loads.

I shoot Defensive Pistol and Steel Challenge Matches with my 38 Special ammunition. Our club switches back and forth one month steel, and the next month Cardboard.
I am loading 158 Round Nose Bullets for the best reloading speed with Speed Loaders, or Moon Clips depending on the revolver I am shooting.
My all purpose load was 4.7 grains of Unique. I recently uped this load to 5.0. You can back a bullet out of the case with 4.7 - 5.0 loads if you do not have a firm crimp.

My loads need to be warm enough to take over the steel targets. My 4.7 - 5.0 loads have been getting the job done.

Switching around brand to brand or 158 to 125 I do need to adjust my seating die a little to seat to the crimp groove, but normally just a small adjustment is needed.
Last week I finished up a 500 round box of bullets and opened a box I had gotten in a trade. The bullets looked identical except for Red lube instead of Blue, or Blue instead of Red. Anyway even though they looked identical the crimp groove was a hair off, requiring an adjustment in seating depth.

Like was said above seat to the crimp groove. The only time OAL normally comes into play with 38 Special and 357 Magnum is when feeding a lever action. They can be picky on bullet shape, and OAL.

Bob