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Old March 6, 2013, 10:21 AM   #26
budoboy
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So did anyone see this "amendment" that they were talking about in the news articles? Apparently, the Senate said "an amendment dealing with that issue is currently being drafted and will be presented in a committee hearing Monday".

I can't find anything that was changed from the final House version of the bill.
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Old March 6, 2013, 11:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
So did anyone see this "amendment" that they were talking about in the news articles? Apparently, the Senate said "an amendment dealing with that issue is currently being drafted and will be presented in a committee hearing Monday".

I can't find anything that was changed from the final House version of the bill.
I haven't found anything either, as far as I know the bill was not changed, and did pass out of that committee Monday.
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Old March 7, 2013, 12:42 PM   #28
budoboy
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They finally posted the amended bill on the Colorado General Assembly website. According to the new version:

------------------------------------
(2) (a) "LARGE - CAPACITY MAGAZINE MEANS

I) A FIXED OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, BOX, DRUM, FEED STRIP OR SIMILAR DEVICE CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING, OR THAT IS DESIGNED TO BE READILY CONVERTED TO ACCEPT MORE THAN FIFTEEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION;

(II) A FIXED MAGAZINE OR SIMILAR DEVICE THAT IS CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING MORE THAN EIGHT SHOTGUN SHELLS; OR

(III) A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, TUBE, BOX, DRUM, FEED STRIP, OR SIMILAR DEVICE THAT IS CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING MORE THAN EIGHT SHOTGUN SHELLS WHEN COMBINED WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE.
--------------------------------------------

So basically, they removed the "readily converted" clause for shotguns.
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Old March 7, 2013, 01:01 PM   #29
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My guess is, unless magpul has them scared that they will look bad for running a significant employer out of the state, it will probably pass with the changes.
Wow, never thought I would see it in Colorado.

Did you see how they plan to tell the difference between grandfathered higher capacity magazines and ones that are newly in the state? I hear that magazines are marked so that they can be dated, but it occurs to me that a whole new black market for older magazines could be created on the net to get around the date restriction.

Psst hey Bob, you got any old 30 rounders for your AR I could buy while I'm here visiting from Colorado? I'll pay you double for them
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Old March 7, 2013, 01:09 PM   #30
budoboy
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Yeah, since the date marking and serialization only applies to magazines made in Colorado, a person could drive to another state, buy an unmarked magazine and there would be no way for anyone in Colorado to know when the mag was made.

This is one of the reasons that, I believe, all of the county sheriffs have voiced their opposition to this legislation. There is no way they will ever be able to enforce laws such as this.
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Old March 7, 2013, 05:41 PM   #31
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So then, "readily convertible" or not, as long as it is capable of being converted it is still unlawful.

Yup, that really "fixed" the language.
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Old March 7, 2013, 06:07 PM   #32
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A " TUBE, THAT IS CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING MORE THAN EIGHT SHOTGUN SHELLS WHEN COMBINED WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE"
So being in possession of a piece of metal, or even plastic tubing, with the correct threads to match any shotgun's end cap will make me a criminal?
Explain to me how you would even know it was made after the ban went into effect.
These people demonstrate who they are every time they open their mouths or touch a computer.
We've got lawyers here, would a law written this poorly survive a court challenge?
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Old March 7, 2013, 07:32 PM   #33
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What about using those short Aquila (sp?) 12 gauge shells. They were out a few years ago and would run in a Winchester 1300.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/255...shot-box-of-20
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Old March 7, 2013, 08:49 PM   #34
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Fascinating, I wonder if my BPS would feed them.
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Old March 8, 2013, 05:15 AM   #35
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Somebody told me he got in a group conversation with some folks who were getting pretty tight jawed about all this .(We are in Colorado)

He pointed out that the reason this is all coming about is the folks who decided they could not/would not get to he polls to vote for the opposition.
Apathy! Lame apathy.

I did what I could,and I voted.

All you who failed to vote,failed us all.NEVER,EVER FORGET!! Never let it happen again.

2014 is coming.Keep track.From the dog catcher to the President,FIRE EVERYONE WHO FAILED TO FIGHT THIS!!

And remember everyone who supported the Constitution.

It is a lot easier to keep freedom than it is to lose it and get it back.

It will be hard,it will take a long time and a lot of work.You and I are the only people that can get it done.

I guess sometimes folks just do not value what is given to them enough to take care of it.You don't miss water till the well runs dry.
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Old March 8, 2013, 10:21 PM   #36
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The bill was amended.

It is better but the bill shouldn't exist at all.

SOURCE

Quote:
To open floor debate Friday afternoon on House Bill 1224, a measure sponsored by Democrats, lawmakers passed an amendment that bans any shotgun magazines that hold more than 28 inches of shotgun shells. Shells vary in size, and originally the bill outlawed any magazines with more than eight shells.
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Old March 8, 2013, 11:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
lawmakers passed an amendment that bans any shotgun magazines that hold more than 28 inches of shotgun shells. Shells vary in size, and originally the bill outlawed any magazines with more than eight shells
Well, Glenn, the Colorado legislature heard you. Great job!

Seriously, where did they get that measurement?
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Old March 8, 2013, 11:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Seriously, where did they get that measurement?
28/8=3.5 ...
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Old March 8, 2013, 11:33 PM   #39
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Vanya you beat me to it.
Eight times three and a half is twenty eight.
Maybe they figured the tube length that way.
If they were right, and this is about where my knowledge ends, that leaves me with room for 10 two and three quarter inch shells.
Considering how much these guys have been wrong, I have to ask, does the math actually work that way?
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Old March 9, 2013, 12:21 AM   #40
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28/8=3.5 ...
Math? Curses! Foiled again!

Still, that's some seriously misguided bean-counting. What bothers me is the tacit acceptance of Republican lawmakers on the grounds that it doesn't ban "common shotguns."

The article mentions an ammunition maker threatening to leave the state. Denver Bullets?
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Old March 9, 2013, 12:34 AM   #41
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Magpul is threatening to leave the state. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22...olorado-if-gun
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Old March 9, 2013, 12:51 AM   #42
budoboy
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Well, they just advanced Bill 1224. It will most likely pass out of the Senate.

I watched virtually all 5 hours of coverage of on Bill 1224. The proponents presented 1 point for the bill. The opponents presented about a hundred points against the bill.

The proponents were confronted on more than one occasion through amendments in which the only response to the confrontation was to flex their political muscle. On several occasions they were asked to present facts and data as to why this would be good for Colorado, to which they said nothing.

The opponents stated the following information:

1) An estimated 800 millions dollars will be lost in Colorado because of this bill. Several letters were read from companies not even in the firearms industry that have said that they will leave the state if this bill is signed into law. Hunters are being told to stay away.

2) The bill, as written, basically bans ALL detachable magazines since nearly all detachable magazines are "readily convertible" or "modifiable" to accept more than 15 rounds. Also, since the weapons that use these magazines need the magazines to function, basically they are implementing a confiscation program wherein an owner is grandfathered in but, once he or she dies, they can pass down the firearm, but the magazines will be illegal to obtain.

3) Sheriffs from across the state have said that these laws, especially the magazine ban and universal background check bill will be unenforceable.

All I saw was a bunch of scared liberals pushing an agenda for absolutely NO other reason other than they had the votes.

This bill(not to mention the other 6) will destroy Colorado if signed into law.
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Old March 9, 2013, 01:27 AM   #43
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Yes, they passed 5 of the 7 bills.

These are going to cost Coloradans big big time, in jobs, and it's going to cost the government big time in lost revenue, and I'll do my part on that front I assure you.

I have already written scathing letters, at this point it seems fair to notify each and every one of them that they have made lifelong political enemies.
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Old March 9, 2013, 02:25 AM   #44
budoboy
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I too just sent off a few emails to various senators and the governor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't banning nearly all detachable magazines (because they can be modified), and therefore, the purchase of any firearm that uses them, a directly violation of the 2nd Amendment as stated in the Heller decision?
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:51 AM   #45
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The governor will be on Mike Rosen's show on the 13th. The station is located at http://www.850koa.com. Click on the listen button at the top of the page.

The call-in number is 303-713-8585.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

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"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
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Old March 9, 2013, 04:03 AM   #46
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First: I was screaming at the monitor "Demand a roll call vote!" They kept having voice votes and in one of them the "Noes" had it and the Speaker declared the measure is passed. The only time they actually had a count was when they had an amendment to vote on.

Second: I couldn't understand why they all wasted time declaring the virtues of the Second Amendment. The Colorado Constitution states the following (emphasis mine):

Quote:
"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons." Colo. Const. art. II, ยง 13.
The Colorado Constitution declares that the right to arms is an individual right. It declares that this right shall not be called to question yet here they were calling the right to question.

The debate should have been centered around the declared individual right and demanding to know why this right is being called to question.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old March 9, 2013, 04:31 AM   #47
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Some good news out of all of this. The bill banning CCW on college campuses was pulled by the sponsor. It is officially dead.

SOURCE

Quote:
Colorado gun bills: Conceal-carry on campus ban killed by sponsor
Posted: 03/08/2013 08:49:49 AM MST
Updated: 03/08/2013 11:37:03 PM MST
By Tim Hoover, Lynn Bartels and Kurtis Lee
The Denver Post

Amid flagging support from his own party, the Democratic sponsor of a bill banning concealed weapons on college campuses spiked his own bill Friday night on the floor of the Colorado Senate.

<MORE>
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old March 9, 2013, 04:38 AM   #48
jimpeel
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In other news, the sponsor of the liability bill pulled his bill. It is officially dead.

SOURCE

Quote:
Colorado gun bills: Senate leader kills his gun liability bill
Posted: 03/08/2013 08:48:20 AM MST
Updated: 03/08/2013 11:51:18 PM MST
By Lynn Bartels and Tim Hoover
The Denver Post

Senate President John Morse ripped the gun lobby Friday night as he prepared to kill his own gun bill in a move that surprised and thrilled Republicans.

<MORE>
This bill would have bumped heads with the federal law that protects arms dealers from liability so he was correct to pull it even if he was loathe to do so. The state was saved the cost of federal litigation. After this debacle, the state will need all of the money it can hang on to.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old March 9, 2013, 05:35 AM   #49
HiBC
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We are many.2014 is coming soon.Stay angry.Make change.

Colorado does not need to have a dem governor,legislature,etc.

It can be undone,and it all can be challenged.

Every gun owner needs to vow to never miss another vote.

Dog catcher,school board,mayor,they all count.

Just big game hunting is more revenue for Colorado than the ski industry.

Find out all the businesses and organizations that supported this garbage and vote with your dollar.

File,encourage,and support lawsuits.

I suspect Magpul may create a 15 rd Colorado edition of a P-mag.Buy lots of them!!

Matter of fact,I suggest all shooters turn their backs on ANYTHING that benefits the urban corridor /Denver area.

Broncos,Avs,Rockies,Coors,skiing,

Leverage the economic impact.

Start a "Boycott Colorado" nationwide.



And tell them why.
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Old March 9, 2013, 01:07 PM   #50
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HiBC,

I agree with you, I have been doing this in a few different forms already.

I have not purchased a hunting/fishing license in CO since 2008 out of protest for the continuing ability of an out of state hunter to buy a tag from a landowner and harvest an elk, particularly in trophy units. All without said hunter having to participate in our drawing and preference point system.

I will go out of my way not to spend any money within the city and county of Denver, in protest of their long standing AWB. This goes for Boulder, CO as well. I can think of several instances where there was ONE business in Denver that had what I needed, I ordered it on-line to avoid paying sales tax in Denver, I have done this many, many times.

I take my voting very seriously, I don't miss elections, and i am always well informed on candidates voting records or public stances.

I do and will continue to boycott any business that supports anti-gun initiatives at any level, even to the point of goint without something (which I probably don't really need in the first place)
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