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Old March 2, 2013, 03:55 PM   #1
handermanntr
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.309" cast lead loading 30-06????

Hello,
I am very new to reloading and I purchased these lead bullets:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...p?sku=00051208

What I am trying to figure out is whether or not I am going to be able to load them to accieve the same velocities as a standard 165gr 30-06 bullet?
The reason I really want to is because my 30-06 is semi-auto(worried about it not cycling), and because I want my rifle to be scoped the same for both jacketed and for the lead bullets.

Also,
if you had to give your opinion, I am wanting to use Win 760 powder with these bullets, what grain load(starting and max) would you suggest??

Thanks.
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Old March 2, 2013, 04:41 PM   #2
Bart B.
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13 to 16 grains of Red Dot or 2400 powder's all you'll be able to use. Lead bullets cannot be shot at jacketed bullet velocities. 1200 to 1500 fps is about max unless you'll put up with poor accuracy and a lot of leading of the bore.

Check out http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php and search for some .30-06 loads.
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Old March 2, 2013, 05:57 PM   #3
chris in va
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They're not a gas check design either, so definitely 1500 or less. GC bullets can go to 2200 or so.

Having experienced a full lockup with lead in a semiauto, I personally wouldn't recommend using lead in an auto gun.
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Old March 3, 2013, 11:37 AM   #4
Boomer58cal
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May I inquire what rifle this if for? Just wondering why the worries about reliability. My Remi. 7400 has never failed in 20 years with a factory mag( don't buy kkk 10 rd mags. Grrrrrr).
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Old March 3, 2013, 12:06 PM   #5
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+1 Bart B.
I have never loaded 30-06 but I do for the 308. These are for an Ishapore 2A1 carbine and I was surprised at the accuracy. These are 172 GR with gas check and 13 GR of red dot.
If you’re going to shoot lead in a gun that has been shooting jacketed MAKE SURE you clean the barrel of any copper. This copper in the barrel will make the gun lead up quickly.
If you try to make standard velocity out of a 30-06 with lead you might end up with a shotgun.
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Old March 3, 2013, 01:55 PM   #6
sunaj
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Wow what a deal,
would that you could load lead to modern velocities!
That's why it is a good idea to allocate one rifle (at least) to shoot lead bullets, e'g. 45/70 in case you can't find ammo you can always make your own
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Old March 3, 2013, 02:40 PM   #7
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would that you could load lead to modern velocities!

You really don’t get the concept of reloading do you?
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Old March 4, 2013, 12:47 AM   #8
Boomer58cal
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First off I should have mentioned many center fire cartridges 100 + years ago were ment to be reloaded with black powder. You could load lead in most modern cartridges if you used black powder or one of it's many modern substitutes but you will not get smokeless powder velocities. Using black powder you usually measure it by volume and not weight. That means you basically fill the case to the top and the bullet slightly compresses the powder upon seating. I know this can be done with the .44 mag and the 30-30 because my dad did it for years. I don't know about the 30-06 though. Trying something like this can be hazardous so if you have no experience in such thing you probably shouldn't try it without the assistance of some that has.
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Old March 4, 2013, 07:33 AM   #9
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Lymans 49th ed has load data for the 170gr cast bullet that you will find helpful... just back off the starting charge just a smidge if the start load is 1700fps or better...

good bullets and shoot well with 30/30 or 30-06..
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:32 AM   #10
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160gn Lead boolit over 11.5gn of unique in 3006 Works quite well out to 100yards ; )
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Old March 4, 2013, 06:49 PM   #11
Ozzieman
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YARDDOG, Interesting. Any idea what kind of velocities your getting and what’s the max?
I don’t have any loads for unique but I have a ton of it and not that much Red dot and I have been looking at other powders.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:51 PM   #12
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Welcome to the world of reloading!

You just found out how complicated it is. Just grabbing a bullet off some website is NOT how to start out.

That bullet would work just fine for what it was made for,,,---30/30. Most commercial casters use a hard lube on their bullets. That usually means they can not be pushed very hard, or they'll lead.

You'll never get to jacketed velocities with those or for that matter with ANY cast bullet in 30-06. Oh, wait, yes you can, but the barrel would be leaded so bad it would look like a 25 caliber bore.

Some guys over at castboolits.com HAVE been able to get to 2800 FPS with very hard gas checked boolits with perfect fit and with a good lube,, AND with acceptable accuracy.

No 760 for cast lead bullets. It's WAY too slow for that.

It sounds like you need to spend a lot of time reading. Both here and on other websites, as well as the front portion of most reloading manuals.

THEN get some jacketed bullets, start at recommended starting loads, learn how to reload. Then, someday, you can get into cast lead in centerfire rifles. Those bullets you bought will not go bad, set them aside for now, get back to them later.
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Old March 6, 2013, 02:34 PM   #13
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Veral Smith has a book about getting cast bullets to jacketed bullet velocities. But as Snuffy hinted, it takes some real serious effort. You need a nearly perfect bore surface, usually achieved by firelapping, bullets with gas checks, and bullets made of something hard enough to withstand the acceleration forces involved without being squashed to a groove diameter lump before clearing the muzzle. Nonetheless, Lyman has examples of their cast bullets made of #2 alloy getting to 2400, to 2500 fps in .30-06 (24" barrel). These bullets have gas checks, though, and they use IMR 4198 as about the slowest powder choice. 760 is way too slow for a bullet that slides into the bore as easily as lead does. It needs more resistance to get burning well.

If you want to shoot those bullets in a gas gun, you still may be able to, but you'll need to something like dip them in Lee Liquid Alox to enhance the lubrication, then let it dry with the bullet sitting on a NECO P-wad to substitute for a gas check (scroll down on this page). You'll want the faster powder, of course.

Once you get have something approaching the velocity you want, it doesn't guarantee your scope setting won't change. Rifle zeros depend on the phase in the muzzle swing at the moment the bullet exits. You can have two different burn rate powders that produce the same velocity with the same bullet and yet have a half a foot difference in vertical point of impact at 100 yards just because the barrel time doesn't match.

But even supposing you could get the same velocity and point of impact at 100 yards from this bullet that you can with a jacketed hunting bullet. The more blunt and less aerodynamic shape of the lead bullet will give it a much lower ballistic coefficient (not to mention having a flat base rather than a boat tail) so it will lose velocity faster and drop further getting to 300 yards than a typical spitzer nose, boat tail jacketed hunting bullet of the same weight and muzzle velocity. As a result, its trajectory will diverge much more from the jacketed bullet trajectory after passing the first couple of hundred yards. It takes that kind of distance to show the problem up because at the shorter ranges the transit time is quick, so gravity doesn't have much time to act on the bullet. Further out, because the fall velocity is proportional to the square of the transit time, the effect becomes much more noticeable.

So, from the standpoint of your original request, the ballistics gods, both interior and exterior, are against your original stated objective.
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