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Old March 1, 2013, 08:11 PM   #1
Prof Young
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We are the shortage!!!!

Shooters:
Well, I suspect we all know this, but we are the cause of the ammo and reloading component shortage. I was at Cabela's yesterday and had a guy tell me he had 10 thousand large pistol primers. That would be a life time supply for me. At the local Bucheit this afternoon a guy told me he had 13 thousand rounds of 22 LR stashed away. It made me think of my buddy Harold whose dad stashed a lot of ammo. Recently he gave me two bricks of 22LR that looked to be 30 or 40 years old. Does anyone realistically need that much on hand? I suppose I am a touch to blame too. At Cabelas I bought the last two bricks of large pistol primers I really only needed one. But today at Bucheit I bought only one of the two pounds of Blue Dot powder that were left. And, by the way it was a treat to discover that out Bucheit is now selling reloading gear and components. Hoarding can be over the top and can make it hard for all of us to have some of what we need and or want. On the other hand, I understand where it comes from.
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Old March 1, 2013, 08:31 PM   #2
Come and take it.
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Hoarding is one thing, but also consider that there are a growing number of individuals these days that put downrange tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition a year.

When I was a younger fellow this was practically unheard of near where I lived. Everyone was into varmint hunting and the two shot/ assess technique was the tactic of choice by law enforcement. The state police were using magnum revolvers.

We were really doing something to unleash a salvo of 18 rounds through the tube of a marlin model 60.

It doesn't take a 1000 rounds a week to train for armageddon. Alvin York did it with a lot less.
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:50 AM   #3
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It all depends on your perspective. Ammunition like gold and silver is a commodity. Ammunition costs in the last few years have risen much faster than inflation. I've seen price increases of almost 100% on actual per box prices of everything from promotional 22 long rifle to 45. What cost $100 just a few years ago is now selling for $200. State and federal politicians are trying to make it harder to get ammo and regulate sales. So can you blaime people for putting away extra ammo, components and primers? If I hadn't stocked up on 17 mach 2, I wouldn't even be able to buy any in my area. The current shortage was predictable. You can't blaime the people who bought ahead. Those are not the guys panic buying now.
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Old March 2, 2013, 02:25 AM   #4
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10k LPP isnt hoarding. Thats less than a years supply for me.
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Old March 2, 2013, 02:36 AM   #5
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Ive gone through 10,000 rounds in 6 months more than once.
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Old March 2, 2013, 02:46 AM   #6
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The stuff isnt getting any less expensive. Buy it cheap, and stack it deep, as they say.
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Old March 2, 2013, 10:15 AM   #7
chiefr
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I don't have a problem with hoarding. The old saying "It is better to be prepared than caught short" has merit.

Can remember stories from my grandfather and his friends saying if it was not for hoarding, they would not have survived the Great Depression.

There has been enough political crises over the last 20 years where firearms and related supplies disappeared. 1993, 2000. 2008, and now 2013. Notice how the increments between periods are becoming shorter.
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Old March 2, 2013, 11:39 AM   #8
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What has happened, thanks to our political climate in recent times is that nearly all of us who enjoy shooting, and handloading on a regular basis have run into the dreaded "what if I can't get any more?".

Nothing wrong with having just enough on hand for the next range trip or loading session, but what about the one after that? Better buy more the next time I can, just in case, right?

And then add in all the people just beginning to get an interest, they want stuff too. And next add in all the folks who are actually "stocking up" either for long term, or for profiteering.

Throw this hugely ballooned demand against the constant moderate supply that was enough in the past, and here we are today.

Lots of people simply don't have faith that they will be able to get more in the future, so they grab everything they can get right now. Which, of course just compounds the problem.

I've been buying more than I used for decades. Have a nice little stash (currently taking inventory, as the last one was in 05).

Quote:
Does anyone realistically need that much on hand?
ain a word, yes.

Some people do. Here's the trap, "need". It's not up to you, or I, or the anti gun politicians to decide how much of what any of us needs. We've been so conditioned, we even talk that way amongst ourselves.

Why does anybody need that?....why even ask that? Even if they don't need it, what are you going to do about it? What do you think ought to be done about it? Why do you even THINK you have a right to make that decision for anyone but yourself?

need....pfffft!

And having a large stock isn't hoarding. Hoarding is going out and buying all the .40S&W on the shelf when you don't even have a .40S&W, etc. Just having it for you, so no one else can have it, that's hording. Having it for you, because you can use it, and someday will, that is just stockpiling. Being a wise ant not a foolish grasshopper....

Right now you can read several folks complaining about not being able to get .22 ammo. Your friend was able to give you a couple bricks! All because his dad was a smart guy who thought ahead. If more people had done that, we wouldn't have the shortages we have right now.
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
All because his dad was a smart guy who thought ahead.
Perhaps.... I'd say his dad was a smart guy if he was stockpiling in order to pass it on to his son. If he was stockpiling for himself... well, that may not have been so smart if he had/has tons of ammo left when he dies.

Hoarding is going on, whether you want to call it by that name or not. To say that Joe Blow uses 50,000 rounds a month doesn't really address the situation, as that's a huge exception. Eventually, these other folks will buy enough, things will even out, and we'll be able to get ammo on a regular basis again.

When this happens, I hope that the hoarders will start buying at that time. Then, perhaps they won't feel the pressure to do so during the next scare. But, probably not, as hoarding doesn't have a lot to do with rational thinking. IMO
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:29 PM   #10
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I don't think its just one or two specific things, but more of the entirety of the situation that makes the shortage so severe.

Yes, some folks are buying for a rainy day, some are shooting more, some are new and just trying to get started, some are trying to flip products for a profit, etc. On the business side, there has been efforts to streamline manufacturing to avoid any bottle necks, going to just in time shipping instead of warehousing, etc. I more feel that each of those issues adds up and overloads the system. I feel it will keep happening more and more though in the future, for one reason or another.
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:30 PM   #11
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When I was shooting trap and skeet competitively, I would go through atleast a thousands shells a week.

And that's on the low side, only 200 shells a day, which was about the limit my sister would pull clays for.
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
If he was stockpiling for himself... well, that may not have been so smart if he had/has tons of ammo left when he dies.
What's wrong with making sure there's a little extra?
Or making sure you can help out friends when they're in need?


One of my brothers can't take his children shooting right now, because he doesn't have enough .22 LR to feed their rifles.
I, on the other hand, have plenty of .22 LR. As the opportunities arise, I give each kid a small amount of semi-premium ammo, and 250-400 rounds of 'bulk'-grade ammo. By the time the weather is warm enough for a genuinely enjoyable shooting trip, they'll have enough ammo for a good time, and will be learning to manage its use themselves (no random blasting of the hillside - because when the ammo is gone, it's gone).
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Old March 2, 2013, 03:11 PM   #13
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The only shooters that can complain are those new to the sport. Everyone else who likes to shoot, and has been doing so for a few years, should have had a small stash (hoard?) of ammo on hand.

If you like to eat, you should have food in the pantry. Drink booze? Liquor in the cabinet. Prone to accidents? A first aid kit. Drive a car? Full tank of gas, and five gallons in the shed, and so on. It's not hoarding, it's being prepared.
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Old March 2, 2013, 03:49 PM   #14
shafter
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13,000 rounds of 22lr really isn't that much. There's a reason it comes in bulk packs.
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Old March 2, 2013, 05:40 PM   #15
Glenn E. Meyer
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At the gun show, there were bricks of 22 LR from $100 to $225. 100 round sticks for $25. 9mm boxes of 50 for $50 and from Crapova and Buttastan.

One guy had some bricks that were branded - Imhotep 22 LR - they looked so old.

I'll wait till crazy calms down.

Interesting, there were plenty of guns but price were a touch higher for some.

But magazines were crazy - new Glock mags for $69. That's nuts - BUT the guy selling at the price had a tub loaded with them. Maybe that should be a hint to him.

PS - the big box stores should put the ammo out in the afternoon to short circuit the hoarders and flippers who camp out in the morning. Put it out at random times.
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Old March 2, 2013, 06:01 PM   #16
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Since I've been prepaing for this shortage since the last one ended I really don't need any components. I did purchase a few things for my daughter's .22-250 though. Many shooters/reloaders can't find components any where. So I understand the urge to get as much as you can if its available. When I visit one of the local shops I fight the urge to do the same if product is on the shelf. I too feel that to some degree the wound is self inflicted.
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Old March 2, 2013, 06:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
We are doing this to ourselves- and the situation can only get worse, until supply catches up with demand. So the next time you see 7.62×39, .308 or .223 ammo—or for that matter .22 LR ammo–on sale, think twice. Ask yourself how much you have, how much you need and how much you can use.

A little self-control, on a nation-wide basis, might be all it takes to correct this situation. Then we can concentrate on convincing our elected idiots that we are NOT asleep at the ballot box, or willing to sit idly by while they trash those ‘certain inalienable rights’ we used to hear about in school.
Along with some comments on cause & effect, at

The Gun & Ammo Famine of 2013
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Old March 2, 2013, 07:32 PM   #18
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Prof Young, you seem to love to harp on the hoarding topic. I started to stock up on ammunition I use beginning in about 2005 and stocked some more after the 2008/2009 shortage. Need is relative. Up until the ammunition availability peaked and inventories got cleaned out, I bought ammunition just about every week. I have purchased one 100-ct box of 22LR and some 480 Ruger since January 1. I am not going to stand in line at some store waiting for it to open because I prepared for just this sort of situation.
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Old March 2, 2013, 08:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
One guy had some bricks that were branded - Imhotep 22 LR - they looked so old.
That there was funny, Glenn!
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Old March 2, 2013, 08:53 PM   #20
Prof Young
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and . . .

Guess I'll go back and buy that other can of blue dot if it's still there.

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Old March 2, 2013, 08:57 PM   #21
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That there was funny, Glenn!
Amen to that, you should write for the funny papers.
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Old March 2, 2013, 09:11 PM   #22
SPEMack618
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So, the King of Egpyt made .22 LR? Or am I missing something?
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Old March 2, 2013, 09:37 PM   #23
basilisk4
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Well, there are also the folks who are going into retail outlets and buying all the ammo off the shelves and then re-selling to gouge people who are panicking at the shortage.
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Old March 2, 2013, 11:32 PM   #24
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LOL

22LR - Imhotep, IMhotep, Imhotep.

O,Connell would be a deader today - no ammo for his 6 shooters.
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Old March 2, 2013, 11:51 PM   #25
NWPilgrim
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We are the shortage!!!!

Good thing I hoarded .44 mag components back in the 1990s. I just got a .44 recently after not having one for some time. Lo and behold, I dusted off my stash if Large Pistol Magnum primers, patina covered cases, and remember those W296 cans with the small metal screw on lid? I loaded up a bunch of test batches today. Didn't have to go out looking for one single thing.

Last ammo drought in 2009 I was able to keep not only myself but four other family members supplied for range trips.

Hoarding means I am part of the solution not your problem.
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