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Old March 3, 2013, 05:23 PM   #1
erob3
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Is this Charles Daly worth it

Hey guys,

Over the next several weeks I hope everyone will not mind me asking alot of questions. My son and I recently went to the shooting range where he shot some skeet using a borrowed shotgun. He enjoyed it a great deal so I am in the process of trying to find him an O/U 12ga. I have spent alot of time reading here on the forum trying to learn as much as possible about O/U shotguns before asking questions. I realize a "quality" shotgun at a "cheap" price generally are not synonymous with each other, however, I do have a budget. With that said; Is this Charles Daly decent or junk?
Thanks.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=330702814
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Old March 3, 2013, 06:06 PM   #2
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Is this a Turkish one?

What is the budget?

Open to buying used?

Is this going to be some serious skeet shooting? As in a LOT of shells every week?

I bought a Browning O/U 18 years ago when this particular model was being discontinued. 18 years ago it was $1,000. 250,000 rounds later, I have spent about $150 replacing springs, firing pins at about 90,000.

The cost for $250,000 rounds?

About $60,000 over that time. Had I bought a cheap unreliable gun? That $1000 would have been a lot more

The cheapest gun you can buy is the one you only buy once
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Old March 3, 2013, 08:07 PM   #3
PetahW
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IMHO, the BIN (Buy It Now) price ($600) is fair.



.
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Old March 3, 2013, 08:20 PM   #4
erob3
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BigDin- I think the listing says it was made in Italy. My budget is $800-$900. Absolutely I am open to buying used, some of the best pistols I have purchased have been used. No, his shooting will be recreational only - once a week or every other week. Probably 100-150 shells per trip. Thanks for the questions.

Here's another one.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=331484633
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:25 PM   #5
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I would go for an Italian one over a Turkish one. Charles Daly is a brand name, but not a maker, so you need to check who the actual maker was.

If it is just casual use - with your budget, I would also look at a used Remington 1100, a new Beretta 3901 (now being replaced by the newer 300 Outlander), perhaps a Browning semi.

A real sleeper in the used gun market is the Beretta 303 from years gone by. Considered by many to be the best and softest shooting semi ever made, they should also be in your budget.

Try looking at sites like www.gunsinternational.com
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Old March 3, 2013, 10:35 PM   #6
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Look for Japanese Miroku

I have 3 O/U shotguns. My best shooter is a Daly made in Japan.

I owned a Daly Superior II from Italy. It had nicer wood but patterned too tight.

I sold it and an old Japan Nikko Winchester 101 which shot too low.
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
My best shooter is a Daly made in Japan.

I owned a Daly Superior II from Italy.
Thanks for making my point. Here is a gent with two Dalys from two different countries, and the new ones are Turkish. The really old ones (as in early 1900s were English made), so double check the country of origin
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:04 AM   #8
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From what I've been able to find out the CD was made by Sabatti of Italy.

My 95 Std Cat. of Firearms lists the Diamond grade O/U, as EXC. $700, VG $625, Good $550, Poor $400, remember those prices are from 1995. And The NRA edition may add some value to the gun.

Gander Mtn. has a NRA Diamond edition listed for $899, but then many of the guns they sell are over priced.
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Old March 4, 2013, 09:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Gander Mtn. has a NRA Diamond edition listed for $899, but then ALL of the guns they sell are over priced.
Fixed that for ya....
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Old March 4, 2013, 10:10 AM   #10
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Thanks, I don't generally look at their new stuff as they are list plus.
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Old March 4, 2013, 11:50 AM   #11
Ricklin
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My gunbroker listing

The Charles Daly on GB is my gun. It is indeed Italian made. It is a darned nice gun.
The other gun you posted on is a Citori, great gun. However the one you listed is a short barreled, fixed choke gun. The listing does not indicate the chokes. If they are mod or tighter Skeet will be a frustration.

They say the exception proves the rule, the Diamond series Daly's are a quality piece. These guns accept standard Remchokes+ you get the full assortment with the gun.

Here's the 411 on this gun AFAIK. These guns started out as the ill fated Winchester 1001. The 1001 got a reputation for blown up barrels and was pulled of the market. Daly bought all the remaining 1001's and went to Turkey to have new barrel sets made and fitted. Since the majority of the gun is Italian, it's marked made in Italy.

The guns were originally made by Marocchi, Marocchi's are being imported by a shop in Oregon, they have a good rep in other parts of the world.

The only possible down side to buying this gun is future parts availability. Daly sold their parts stock to Gun Parts Corp. They have some parts in stock for the gun. The receiver looks identical to a current Marocchi model. Don't know for sure if parts interchange, but I suspect they would.

This is a darned nice O/U, and an excellent deal. I just don't need it. My game is trap, which the Daly worked OK for and I shot a couple of 25's with it. I have since purchased a dedicated trap gun.
It's also very well cared for. I cleaned it every few hundred rounds. I store the gun broken down and use snap caps to relieve the springs. It's fairly heavy, I added weight to the butt stock that can be removed (lead foil) it weighs about 9.5 lbs. right now. Weight is an advantage in a 12 Ga. target gun.
Some addl. extras.......pair of Ext. chokes in Imp. Mod and Full. Morgan adjustable field recoil pad, and fiber optic bead.
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Last edited by Ricklin; March 4, 2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old March 4, 2013, 12:46 PM   #12
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My short answer is no on the Daly....parts might be an issue down the road ...and it certainly won't maintain its value beyond the very short term / and as discussed, depending on where its made, it may not hold up to 10,000 shells -- let alone 100,000 or 250,000 shells...

Everyone has budgets....but Browning and Beretta have long given you the most gun for the money in their O/U's....if you can't find a Browning or Beretta used...consider a semi-auto ...or even a good long term pump gun as a better option ( like a BPS Hunter model ).

A kid that is just starting in this pastime ....doesn't need an O/U in my view ...../ and I think you're trying to reach a little too far on the Daly....to make it something its not likely to be long term, sorry...
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Old March 4, 2013, 05:06 PM   #13
erob3
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BigJim- You're not the first to say I should look into a semi-auto shotgun. Are they more reliable than O/U's? Is it a fair statement to say that a better quality $600 - $800 semi-auto shotgun can be bought more so than an O/U in the same price range? Also, I feel I have not been completely clear about my son - he's 20 yrs old - HOWEVER it is still true that this is only going to be a past time for him and just doing it for pleasure.
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Old March 4, 2013, 08:10 PM   #14
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More reliable? Over the lifetime, probably decent but no, not as much - only because there are more moving parts that are intricately involved with one another - especially a gas gun. That said, will a GOOD gas gun go hundreds of thousands? It should, and easily

Quote:
Is it a fair statement to say that a better quality $600 - $800 semi-auto shotgun can be bought more so than an O/U in the same price range?
Without question. An 800 semi, will most likely be better than a 1200 O/U.

Pumps and semis barrels are the main cost difference between guns with two barrels
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:00 PM   #15
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I have no doubts about the long term reliability of the Daly I have for sale. It is a quality gun.
Marocchi shotguns are being imported, also Gun Parts Corp. has parts for this model.

Someone will get a great deal on this fine shotgun. I would generally agree that low cost and over under do not go together. This gun is the exception that proves the rule. For a casual clays gun?? You won't do better.

A big part of clay shooting is those few inches between your ears, IE confidence in yourself and your gun. This is a gun that will inspire that confidence, great looks, great balance, heavy enough to mitigate recoil, and most of all it hits where you point it.
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Old March 5, 2013, 02:16 PM   #16
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No semi-auto ( not even guns at $ 2,000 or more ) will ever be as reliable as an Over Under. There are too many parts in a semi-auto compared to an O/U and some semi-autos will have feeding problems / especially if guys that reload don't resize their shells properly --- where on an O/U ---even if you have a crummy crimp, mis-shaped roll on the crimp, a crack in the side of a reloaded shell --- if you can shove it into the chamber of the gun on an O/U 99.99 % of the time it will be fine ( no cycling issues).

Good O/U's are not inexpensive to produce..../ and today even the entry level Brownings and Berettas used, in good condition, with changeable screw in chokes ( which I think you need to have to make a gun versatile ) ...like an older Browning Citori Lightning model made in the late 1980's will still demand around $ 1,200 on the used market.../ new they are up around $ 2,000 ...with some of the better guns in the Citori line ..like an XS Skeet model with an adjustable comb new is around $3,000 and used even with 250,000 shells thru them in my area they can go for around $ 2,000 easily...

For an entry level semi-auto I like the Browning Silver Hunter model ...or one of the Berettas ....both companies have a lot of good guns in the $ 800 - $ 1,250 price range in their semi-auto lines.

Quality in shotguns is not necessarily something you can see...its in the steel, the internal parts, are the barrels regulated properly so they both hit to the same point of impact ( or is one high left and one low right ), quality of springs, firing pins...durabily of the barrel to receiver connection..../ not just fancy wood.

I don't put that many shells thru my primary guns anymore ....( around 7,500 shells a yr now ) ....but I have Browning Citori XS Skeet and XT Trap models...and some Lightning models ...that are well over 250,000 shells with no issues, not even firing pins replaced ! Will that Daly hold up the same way - no, not in my opinon.../ but I can't tell by looking at them either...the question you have to answer is, do you want to take a chance on it or not...or buy a good semi-auto instead...or save for a better O/U ???

Ricklin, in the message above....is solidly behind his Daly ...and I have no reason to doubt his experience / but I don't think he can say every gun that Daly makes is like that ....and I won't say everything Browning makes ( thru Miroku by the way ) is 100% either...but what I do know is that Browning will stand behind their guns. Are you paying something for the Beretta or Browning name ...sure probably / but will it retain its value for 25 or 50 yrs, yes..if you take care of it .../ will a Daly, no, not based on what I see in the used market today. But I'm not just picking on Daly ...I'm not fond of a lot of the lower end O/U's -- Ruger, Mossberg, Remington, TriStar, Baikal, Huglu .../ but a gun that I might say look out for is a SKB. They're out of business right now - unless someone has made a deal to mfg and import them again...but they had some pretty good guns ( not a Beretta or Browning - but not bad either )...

Personally, for my boys when they were 16 ...and now for the grandkids...I buy them their first shotgun ( kids when they're growing - shoot my guns in 20ga, 28ga etc ) and I have some shorter stocks cut to fit them, etc ...as they grow / but their first gun, has always been a Browning BPS Hunter model 12ga, 28" barrel with screw in chokes.../ with some of the smaller kids or even the granddaughters ( they aren't all built like me "a med to semi-large buffalo" ...thank goodness ) so for the ones that like to shoot, I've started adding the Browning Silver Hunter semi-auto model as an option for them if they want that instead for that first gun - present....both still affordable ....and really good long term guns, if they take care of them the way I teach them, for 2 or 3 generations...

Last edited by BigJimP; March 5, 2013 at 02:26 PM.
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Old March 6, 2013, 06:42 AM   #17
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the only CD guns made that had any reliability were ones built by Sabatti or Mirouku. The Turkish built guns are junk and a complete waste of money...
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