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Old February 24, 2013, 09:52 PM   #1
lah2420
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H335-H322 comparison question

I have a question about these 2 powders I have just tried. I am shooting a stock Mini14 Ranch. I know it is not a tack driver, so I'm not trying to get it to be one. Here are the loads I've tested so far:

LC brass
CCI BR-4 primers(I know they are match grade, but all that was available)
Hornady 55 grain SP bullet

H335 charges in grains: 23, 23.5, 24, 24.5, 25
I shot with a chrony and velocities started just under 2900 for the 23 grain to about 3150 for both the 24.5 and 25 grain. The 24.5 grain delivered the best grouping of 1.75 inches at 100 yards. The 23 was next best at a little over 2 inches. The 25 grain was the worst at nearly 4 inches.

H322 charges in grains: 21, 21.5, 22, 22.5, 23
The chrony basically showed the same velocity spread from over 2900 to about 3150. No group was very good with nearly 4 inch groups for each load.

Is this something normal? I thought with the velocity being nearly the same, the grouping would be similar.

Educate me here.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:07 PM   #2
mohr308
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What weight bullet are you using? What bullet are you using? Do you know the twist rate of that barrel?

I shoot an ar-15 using a SGK bullet @ 65gr with LC brass, 24.5 gr of H335 and CCI 41 primers. I get a .5" or less grouping @100 yds with a fixed 6x optic.

You may need a heavier bullet, but there is a few of things that it could be.
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Last edited by mohr308; February 24, 2013 at 10:14 PM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:18 PM   #3
hodaka
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I don't think the mini has adequate accuracy to measure the difference between these variables.

Last edited by hodaka; February 25, 2013 at 07:12 AM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:29 PM   #4
10 Spot Terminator
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How many shots per each powder charge ? Did you clean the bore at any point in the testing ? seems as the groups started to open up after the 4th load fired with the H335 which may be in part due to barrel fouling. What about the heat of the barrel ? did you allow sufficient cooling time between rounds ?

I would ask what the outside temps were but this is where the H322 should have had the edge over the H335 as the H322 is one of the extreme rated powders from Hodgdon. Less temperature sensitive.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:57 PM   #5
lah2420
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Bullet weight 55 grain Hornady SP.
I think the barrel twist is 1 in 9.
I was shooting 3 shot groups, mainly to check chrony readings between charges.
I let the gun sit for about 5 minutes between groups, and only about 2 minutes between shots in each group. I shot the H335 one day and then a week later loaded and shot the H322, so they weren't both in the same session. I tried to keep the timing between shots for both powders the same so I would compare apples to apples.
Both days were somewhat cool, but not cold enough for a coat so the barrel seemed to cool quickly.
I did not clean the barrel between shots or groups each of those days.
As mentioned above, the mini isn't known to be a tack driver. But I didn't expect such a difference in groupings for the 2 powders.
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Old February 24, 2013, 11:15 PM   #6
Bamashooter
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The best group Ive got with my mini-14 was 1.25'' with 60gr sierra varmiter reloads. The same load shoots under an inch out of my delton AR.

Mini-14's are very good rifles they just arent made to be benchrest accurate. Just as the AR isnt as tuff and reliable as the mini-14.
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Old February 24, 2013, 11:29 PM   #7
steve4102
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Quote:
I thought with the velocity being nearly the same, the grouping would be similar.
Nope, it's about barrel harmonics not velocity.

http://www.rifle-accuracy.com/harmonics.htm

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/barrel.htm

http://varmintal.com/amode.htm

http://guns.livejournal.com/2038833.html
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Old February 25, 2013, 08:09 AM   #8
lah2420
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That was some interesting reading. Some folks have really gotten into the science of this it looks like.
I think my next step is going to be to load some more and try again. Just to ease my mind that I didn't do something stupid the first time. The only down side is that I will have to wait until next Saturday to shoot them. I'll be glad when the time changes and I have an extra hour of daylight after work. The job cuts into my other interests.
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:24 PM   #9
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When I test for accuracy I tend to load up at least 15 because I can just pull them later if I want to. On the comments about using a Mini, common sense would say if there is a 2+ inch difference at 100 yards then your rifle is accurate enough to benefit from a specific load.
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Old February 26, 2013, 08:25 AM   #10
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I got lucky in that my mini-14 loves the same load as my AR. 23.6 grains of H335 pushing the same bullet you are using. With mine, I can shoot sub moa groups with it, which is unusual, but if the harmonics are right, they are right. I have recently run out of H335 and can't find it anywhere so I had to buy some H322. I have test loads ready to go, but can't get to the range to test them for quite a while yet so I have no answers for the 322 yet.
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Old February 26, 2013, 09:55 AM   #11
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I'm using 24.5 to 25.5 grains of WCC844(H335) depending on primer used with Hornady 55SP and getting 3100+ fps out of 20" barrels and 2850 fps with 16".
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Old February 26, 2013, 07:13 PM   #12
lah2420
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I've loaded some more with both powders to try out again. I took the gun totally apart and gave it a cleaning and a half. I'm kind of hoping that the last time it was cleaned some fouling got left in the barrel. I think my next minor investment will be a bore light so I can actually look down the barrel and see if it's clean.
Now if I can somehow convince the boss that it would be in both of our best interests to go try these loads out during the daylight hours when he thinks I need to be working.
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Old April 6, 2013, 08:56 PM   #13
lah2420
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Resurrecting my own old thread as an update. I borrowed a set of Lyman weights to test my scale. It had issues. I have fixed the issues(user-don't ask) and also purchased a digital scale. When I dropped a charge with my powder dispenser at the weights I thought I was throwing, I found that I was throwing about 1.5 grains more than I thought. So my max loads were actually overcharged. I also went with Hornady's recommended charges for that bullet instead of Hodgdon's. Hornady recommended lower charges. After loading up several different charges of H355, I found that the most accurate and consistent charge in my gun with the Hornady 55gr SP is 21.8gr. Velocity averages about 2550 fps on my buddy's old chrony. His new one shows about 75 fps faster. The higher charges threw bullets all over the place. Thanks Steve4102 for pointing me in the right direction.
Now I have several loaded with H322 for my next trip to the range. And I checked those weights on both scales to make sure they both agreed.

Last edited by lah2420; April 7, 2013 at 06:54 AM.
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Old April 6, 2013, 09:32 PM   #14
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I just loaded up some rounds to try with H322 and H355 with a 55gr bullet! I am going to the range in the morning! We will see how they shot!!!
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