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Old February 24, 2013, 06:13 PM   #1
Kreyzhorse
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Mexico Wants US Gun Registry Data

I was reading a transcript from a speech given by Wayne LaPierre and in it, he mentioned that Mexico has voted to ask for a US gun registry system and would also like access to that data for every gun owner in the four US / Mexico border states.

While I can find references to this on line, there are no mainstream news outlets reporting this other than a CBS affiliate.

Has anyone heard of this before now? I can't imagine this would ever happen, but, I am sure that there are some that would agree with this request. (Im looking at you Mr. Holder.)

Frightening to think about a world where a country would gather data like that and then provide it to another country.

Here is a linky:

http://godfatherpolitics.com/9562/me...border-states/
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Last edited by Kreyzhorse; February 24, 2013 at 06:23 PM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:29 PM   #2
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I've heard about this, as well, and also looked for mainstream media references, to no avail. That being the case, I'm reluctant to confirm or deny, but the rumor is out there. We might check factcheck.org (is that the name?) or snopes or some of those sites.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:48 PM   #3
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I tried Snopes and non US based media and have drawn a blank.

If it is just a rumor, it lured at least the NRA and one CBS station into not fact checking.

Update: KRNV, an NBC affiliate reported on it as well. That is two media outlets.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:49 PM   #4
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Good point. When I read the rumor, it was unconnected to either the NRA or CBS.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:51 PM   #5
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It's out there on many, many rumor-mongering websites.

Someone whose Spanish (and knowledge of the Mexican legislative system) is better than mine should check this report in a Mexican newspaper. I ran Google Translate on this page, but it still wasn't very clear.

I did look on Fact Check, but there's nothing there yet.

There's something to it, but I suspect it's being blown way out of proportion at the moment.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:57 PM   #6
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This is what Chrome gives me as a translation of Vanya's link:

MEXICO CITY (09/ENE/2013) . - The Standing Committee approved an agreement point to urge the U.S. Senate to promote initiatives for the states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to implement a register ballistic weapons selling fire (my translation: registry of firearms sold). Marcela PRI Senator War presented the proposal, which is intended that when these weapons are used in a violent act, you can know precisely the name of the person who originally purchased the armory. considered that such action would follow up on the search and location of the owner and that the information provided to the government of Mexico. This is done in the framework of applicability of the Federal Law of Transparency and Access to Public Government Information in Mexico and the Freedom of Information Act in the United States, as well as cooperation agreements between the two countries in the fight against drug trafficking, he said. Legislator Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) said arms trafficking to Mexico takes place in alarming volumes across the common border, and noted that the circumstances seem to confirm the Mexican government's inability to control its flow in the border strip. "While each country is sovereign to establish their own laws, there is no doubt that responsibility for the effects that involves gunrunning in neighboring countries, especially when it is done illegally, "he said
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Old February 24, 2013, 07:10 PM   #7
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Yep, that's about what I got. Online translation is better than it used to be, but it has its limitations.

I couldn't confirm whether the Standing Committee is one that vets legislation before it goes to the whole Senate, or if has some independent power if, for example, the Senate is out of session.
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Old February 24, 2013, 07:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
MEXICO CITY (09/ENE/2013.) - The Standing Committee approved an agreement point to urge the U.S. Senate to promote initiatives for the states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to implement a register ballistic firearms they sell.

PRI Senator Marcela Guerra presented the proposal, which aims at the time that these weapons are used in a violent act, you can know precisely the name of the person who originally purchased the armory.

Considered that such action would follow up on the search and location of the owner and that the information provided to government of Mexico.

This was done in the framework of applicability of the Federal Law of Transparency and Access to Public Government Information in Mexico and the Freedom of Information Act U.S.

Legislator of the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) said arms trafficking to Mexico takes place in alarming volumes across the common border, and noted that the circumstances seem to support the Mexican government's inability to control its flow in the border strip.

While each country is sovereign to establish their own laws, it is indisputable that there is responsibility on the effects that this implies arms trafficking in neighboring countries, especially when it is done illegally, "he said.
Above is a rough Google translation of the article.

Just saw that Peetza beat me to the translation. Anyway, it does seem that there certainly is some truth to it.

If the formal request is ever made, I'll be curious to see when the rest of the mainstream media pick it up.
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:05 PM   #9
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They can ask for anything they want. There isn't a chance in hell the US government would comply with it.
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:49 PM   #10
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Not completely sure that the US government wouldn't at least consider such a request given the current anti gun frenzy on at least some areas of Washington.
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:59 AM   #11
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A couple of points for consideration...

1) Currently such a list does not exist. OR at least exist in a complete form. What better excuse to create one than the "request of a friendly government"?

What the translation says to me is that the Mex govt is asking our govt to create such a list, so that, when they recover a gun used in a crime in Mexico, the US govt can give them the name and address of the original owner. All in the course of a valid criminal investigation, of course.

That being the case, I'm sure that if it came to pass, that is how it would start out. But, once the list is created, what is to stop someone in our govt, officially or otherwise, from making the entire list available to the Mexican govt?

2) Once the Mexican govt has such a list, does anyone NOT think it will wind up in the hands of the cartels?

Rather a slick deal, having the US govt create a list for you, of homes to avoid, or to target?!!!

Kind of makes me wonder if the cartels aren't behind the whole idea in the first place.....
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Old February 25, 2013, 04:16 AM   #12
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On its surface it would seem to be a logical reaction to the Fast & Furious Fiasco.

The language appears to be intended to establish who the original buyer was of any weapons recovered in Mexico.

I'm with Kreyzhorse when noting that Eric Holder might actually agree with this sort of arrangement, as a foundation for the establishment of an incremental gun registration database at DOJ. Holder has been a staunch anti-gun advocate for years, and currently is nearly untouchable - look at what effect his being held in contempt by Congress had on his career... Basically nothing.

Holder is far more important to Obama's anti-gun strategy than is commonly discussed. He has a history of strategic anti-gun planning:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/18/ho...o-be-anti-gun/

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...der.htm?p=full
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:33 AM   #13
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I agree with Doc regarding Holder. I mean guy thought fast & furious was a good idea.

Holder ran fast and furious as a way to "help" our friends south of the border combat gun violence. F&F of course, though well intended, didn't have the desired effect. So now, establishing a registry and providing that data to Mexico, well, certainly that would help stop cartel violence, in Mexico anyway.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:03 AM   #14
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This would start with the State Department which is completely full of liberals. You can't even get a seat at the table with those guys unless you have kissed Diane Feinstein's ring from a kneeling position.

It would easily sail through State and with a recommendation to support it if they think they could get something they value from Mexico. They sure don't care if Mexico has data on us evil gun people.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
You can't even get a seat at the table with those guys unless you have kissed Diane Feinstein's ring from a kneeling position.
What does Feinstein have to do with the State Department? She has no influence in that area.

As the matter stands now, if a gun is found in Mexico, they can call the ATF, who can initiate a trace on it. That system works; it's how we know the old 78% claim doesn't hold water.

Last time I checked, foreign actors don't get to tell us what kind of legislation to pass.
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:33 PM   #16
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Tom, the statement is meant to impart that they are "cut from the same clothe".

As for what that is about, just like I said, it would start with State where even something like this could gain traction. Once it has traction in State it doesn't matter where it came from as it can take on a life of it's own.
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:26 PM   #17
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It ain't gonna happen.

No way in hadies can you get 60 senators and 51% of the house to buy into that idiotic plan.
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
As the matter stands now, if a gun is found in Mexico, they can call the ATF, who can initiate a trace on it. That system works; it's how we know the old 78% claim doesn't hold water.
Mexico already has online access to etrace. (along with 30 some other countries).
What data that is in etrace may surprise a few folks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETrace#...m_data_sources
http://www.theiacp.org/LinkClick.asp...0%3D&tabid=728

(my bold to show how you could easily be in the registry already)
Quote:
All previous firearms traces from all sources,[5]
Dealer, Importer, and Manufacturer computer, paper or microfilm “Bound Book” Out-of-Business records (including digital files required by ATF Ruling 2008-2),[5]
Dealer “Bound Book” records (computer and/or paper) copied or photographed by ATF during annual inspections.
ATF Form 4473 from dealers copied or photographed during annual inspections and in Out-of-Business records.[5]
Multiple Firearm Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4)[5]
Traditional phone calls to the manufacturer, distributor and final selling dealer,[5]
Additional data sources, such as some state firearms sales records as required by state law or policy.
Dealer “Bound Books” over 20 years old voluntarily sent in to ATF.[5]
Includes some antique firearms allowed to be entered in “Bound Books”.
Stolen firearms reported to ATF.[5] (Note: Does not include stolen firearms reported to the FBI - NCIC, a separate system)
System 2000 automated retrieval system from manufacturers, importers and distributors (100 companies as of 2010)[5]
Certain firearms dealers are required by ATF to report certain used firearms transaction to ATF for entry into the Firearms Tracing System.
For every firearm reported stolen to the NCIC stolen firearms database, New Jersey now automatically submits a trace to ATF (NJ Trace System). ATF is reported as working on a similar program.[14]
Some state firearm registration systems are being loaded into the tracing system.
In a press release, New Jersey admits tracing (from police records) all of private gun purchases into the ATF Firearms Tracing System through eTrace. By state law, New York and Connecticut also require tracing of all such private purchase firearms.
ATF hired private consultants to catalog information on firearms and submit trace requests from police departments to ATF.
ATF has imposed a requirement (pilot project) to report all dealer multiple sales (2 or more) of all semi-auto rifles with a detachable magazine greater than .22 caliber. (Currently restricted to California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas - border states with Mexico).[15] Reported justification is to identify "straw purchasers" and weapons traffickers. However, this ruling will include 100 year old Model 1907 Winchester rifles, WWII M1 Carbines, German G43 rifles, FN 49 rifles, and many other historic firearms of primary interest to collectors and are not known to be used by Mexican drug catels. William J. Hoover (ATF Acting Deputy Director) denied that ATF is seeking to create a national registry (a national registry already exists, see above), and said records would be kept for 24 months and then destroyed if not acted on by investigators.[16] However, this is contrary to current ATF practice and neither assertion is supported by the documentation.
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:26 PM   #19
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Be humorous to see this happen and have the first couple thousand guns they run trace back to eric holder.
That's the only humor I find in this, by the way. Mexico can pound sand.
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:08 PM   #20
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Oddly enough, a co-worker told me today about this. I mentioned that I first heard about it the day before and there was very little media coverage and nothing on the national level. When I asked where he heard from, he said that CNN was actually reporting on it on Saturday.

Very interesting. I'd like to see NBC's take on what a great idea it would be.
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Old February 25, 2013, 08:36 PM   #21
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Maybe we should ask for a list of names that have moved "North" from Mexico.
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Old February 26, 2013, 02:57 PM   #22
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The translation is close enough I don't feel the need to correct any of it.

As another alluded, the second the Mexican Government, especially LE has this info, the cartels do also.

There is more, not less, political pandering and false promises in the Mexican Gov't than the US. This is just smoke and that is why no one is reporting it.

It is important to keep in mind that in the last few months a second region of Mexico has cordoned itself off and refused entrance to government law enforcement due to their involvement with cartels. The HUGE Mormon area in northern Mexico, where most of the arms probably do come from the US and an area in the mountains around Cancun are both operating more or less independently at current. At the very least like autonomous zones with little to no federal government officials present.

Several very small and limited confrontations between LEO trying to disarm Mormons in the north over the last few years with government backing down, none reported outside Cancun, but it makes the government look pretty bad.
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