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Old February 24, 2013, 09:05 PM   #51
thedudeabides
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Hoarding is more than you need.

No one but you knows how much you need.
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:55 PM   #52
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Hoarding... oh, where's my Precious?
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:05 PM   #53
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I think this is a good time for gun owners who have ammunition to start being aware of their fellows ammo situation and help them out if they need it. Simply sell them a little ammo at the price you paid for it so they can have something to defend themselves or hunt with.

I would hate to think that a first time gun owners first experience with fellow gun owners would be having to pay an outrageous amount of money for a box of ammo that one day (They will figure out you burned them eventually) will become available at a much cheaper price.

If we can't work together over something as insignificant as a panic ammo shortage, how can we expect to work together and trust each other when things really go south?
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:09 PM   #54
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I am willing to help out someone, but I am not going to supply the scout troop for an afternoon shooting. That requires planning.

As far as fair market price.... most that buy ammo have some idea what it normally costs. You can be very up front with them on pricing if you are selling. But with 22 ammo, I would simply give a friend some ammo and that would be that. A stranger would not likely ask.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:11 PM   #55
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I was talking to a guy at church today who told me his dad has 100,000 rounds of .22LR and maybe 10,000 each of several other calibers. He bought them when there was plenty of supply and didn't prevent anyone else from buying. Hoarding? Nope, but maybe a bit over the top and certainly in a tax bracket or three higher then mine.

You usually hear hoarding accusations thrown around when necessities like food are in short supply, particularly when someone buys in such a manner, that others in need are prevented from buying and suffer as a result. Buying when prices are low and supply plentiful is not hoarding, no matter the quantities purchased.

If I bought a years supply of food or ammunition five years ago and supplies are tight now or five years from now does not make me a hoarder even when others have unfilled needs. Planning and buying ahead is not a crime either legally or morally. Even so, I may be called a hoarder simply by having something someone else wants. Those same people would call me selfish because I bought food or ammo when they spent their money on a cruise. Funny, I didn't think them selfish when they didn't take me on the cruise with them.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:40 PM   #56
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If I won the lotto, I would buy probably 100 guns, maybe 2-3 houses, enough land for a deer lease and maybe 2-3 vehicles. Hoarding? Nope- my money I can buy what I want! Shoot, if you don't buy anything then people will say you're hoarding your money. Geez. Lol
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:35 AM   #57
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Simply sell them a little ammo at the price you paid for it so they can have something to defend themselves or hunt with.
Nice sentiment, but I don't think so. At least, not in my case. You see, I haven't bought more than a couple of boxes of ammo in the last 3-4 years. In fact, the sad truth is, I am not shooting much lately, simply because I cannot replace my ammo for anywhere near what I paid for it.

Now, I won't leave a friend defenseless, but sell it for what I paid? Not hardly. Because I bought back when prices were "normal", years ago. Selling it today for what I paid then? no. Perhaps, if I were in desperate need of cash, selling some of it at what I consider a fair market price (and not the hyper inflated panic prices today), MAYBE....

I didn't set out to be, nor am I equipped to be the Arsenal of Democracy. And I don't think many of the rest of us are, either.

let me give you an example, somewhere in the back room I have a case of 7.62mm NATO (still sealed), bought at the then going market price of $165.
Looking back now, I should have bought 5 (alas). If I had, then selling one might be an option. But do you seriously think I ought to sell some for what I paid for it? Just to be a nice guy? I try to be a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just not that nice....

Makes me feel like the ant, surrounded by grasshoppers, whining "gimme, gimme, gimme, and gimme it CHEAP!!"

Heard a radio talk show host tonight, saying how he was going to take a CCW class, and buy a gun. He wants to be a gun owner, he wants to show solidarity with us. Beome one of us. While I almost laughed, I do wish him well. He can learn our pain, and suffer it with us now.

What I do wonder is why this well off middle aged gentleman is only NOW buying a gun?!!! That is part of the problem we have today. Lots and lots of people, for whom it was never any concern or interest suddenly have both. And their money has bought up everything in sight. Leaving very little for the rest of us. And THEY are complaining!

I'm rapidly growing deaf ears. I do have sympathy for the young folks just starting out in firearms, most of them with tight budgets. I was there myself once. What irks me is the well off folks, who spent years/decades ignoring the shooting sports/self defense now demanding their share, and claiming those of us who have spent decades building up a collection (and supplies to feed that collection) are HOARDERS!!!

You spent you money buying what you wanted. That's your right. I did the same. Good luck stopping the thief, or rapist with those stocks, bonds and gold bullion. Those are fine things, and money (in whatever form) is very useful. Virtually a necessity. But when you need bullets, nothing else will do.

The stuff is still out there, buy what you want, at what the market will bear. But insult me, imply I have done something bad (hoarder), and I really don't want to share my toys with a rude snot like you! Why don't you just get your pitchforks and torches and start chanting "Burn the witch!"

Sorry for being so snarky, but this really ticks me off.

Look at it this way, suppose I had a full tank of gas, and there was no more gas to be had. I'd drive you to the hospital if you needed to go. But I wouldn't siphon some out so you could drive your car to the lake to party. And I certainly wouldn't do it if you offered me $0.39 per gallon!

yes, I'm an old grump, especially on this issue. Hoarder!! pffft!
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:10 AM   #58
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Lots and lots of people, for whom it was never any concern or interest suddenly have both.
As a corollary, I'm pretty much over the idea that Joe Bob has to get his AR-15 and ammo before the ban, but he has no interest in doing anything to prevent the ban.

He'll waste all sorts of gas, money, time, and effort tracking down a couple of 30-round magazines, but he can't donate $50 to a 2nd Amendment organization. He'll regale me with his weird and often tasteless political theories, but he won't take the time to write his legislators. Heck, from what I've seen of the voter turnout numbers, he didn't even vote in the last few elections.

Once he's got the totem weapon he thinks he needs (and probably won't learn to use properly), his interest in the gun culture will wane to nearly zero. If the storm passes with no significant fallout, he'll grow tired of all that stuff he hoarded, and by late summer, it'll be a buyer's market for unfired military-pattern rifles and sealed cases of ammo.

We saw this in the 2008-2009 mess, and we're seeing it now, only on a larger scale.
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Old February 25, 2013, 04:07 AM   #59
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By definition:

Quote:
Pathological or compulsive hoarding is a specific type of behavior characterized by:
•acquiring and failing to throw out a large number of items that would appear to have little or no value to others (e.g., papers, notes, flyers, newspapers, clothes)
•severe cluttering of the person's home so that it is no longer able to function as a viable living space
•significant distress or impairment of work or social life
I'd say nobody's hoarding unless they have so much ammunition that they can't reasonably live in their house. That, or they lose their job because they're always shopping for more...
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:18 AM   #60
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Why do us "newbies" feel so cold in here???
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:49 AM   #61
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Hoarding is when the other guy has more than I do. If I have more than him, well that's ok.
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:56 AM   #62
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I think Amp 44 said it best in post # 57, I bought early, I bought often when ammo was in reason.
Now the mid aged Man/Women who don't own a gun & Jumped on wagon & Can't find ammo,, Times that by a half million or more & bam No ammo..

I'll give a family member a box or two of 22s or a good freind, Other than that well lets say,, I'm keeping my ammo ; )
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Old February 25, 2013, 09:03 AM   #63
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This is crazy, and a sign of the times, I suppose, but I just sat down yesterday and did some quick math on the dollar value of the ammo I have. If I use today's prices it would appear the ammo I have for my AR-15 is now worth much more then my two AR-15's. Crazy.
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Old February 25, 2013, 09:40 AM   #64
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Quote:
44amp said:

Nice sentiment, but I don't think so. At least, not in my case. You see, I haven't bought more than a couple of boxes of ammo in the last 3-4 years. In fact, the sad truth is, I am not shooting much lately, simply because I cannot replace my ammo for anywhere near what I paid for it.

Now, I won't leave a friend defenseless, but sell it for what I paid? Not hardly. Because I bought back when prices were "normal", years ago. Selling it today for what I paid then? no. Perhaps, if I were in desperate need of cash, selling some of it at what I consider a fair market price (and not the hyper inflated panic prices today), MAYBE....

I didn't set out to be, nor am I equipped to be the Arsenal of Democracy. And I don't think many of the rest of us are, either.

let me give you an example, somewhere in the back room I have a case of 7.62mm NATO (still sealed), bought at the then going market price of $165.
Looking back now, I should have bought 5 (alas). If I had, then selling one might be an option. But do you seriously think I ought to sell some for what I paid for it? Just to be a nice guy? I try to be a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just not that nice....

Makes me feel like the ant, surrounded by grasshoppers, whining "gimme, gimme, gimme, and gimme it CHEAP!!"

Heard a radio talk show host tonight, saying how he was going to take a CCW class, and buy a gun. He wants to be a gun owner, he wants to show solidarity with us. Beome one of us. While I almost laughed, I do wish him well. He can learn our pain, and suffer it with us now.

What I do wonder is why this well off middle aged gentleman is only NOW buying a gun?!!! That is part of the problem we have today. Lots and lots of people, for whom it was never any concern or interest suddenly have both. And their money has bought up everything in sight. Leaving very little for the rest of us. And THEY are complaining!

I'm rapidly growing deaf ears. I do have sympathy for the young folks just starting out in firearms, most of them with tight budgets. I was there myself once. What irks me is the well off folks, who spent years/decades ignoring the shooting sports/self defense now demanding their share, and claiming those of us who have spent decades building up a collection (and supplies to feed that collection) are HOARDERS!!!

You spent you money buying what you wanted. That's your right. I did the same. Good luck stopping the thief, or rapist with those stocks, bonds and gold bullion. Those are fine things, and money (in whatever form) is very useful. Virtually a necessity. But when you need bullets, nothing else will do.

The stuff is still out there, buy what you want, at what the market will bear. But insult me, imply I have done something bad (hoarder), and I really don't want to share my toys with a rude snot like you! Why don't you just get your pitchforks and torches and start chanting "Burn the witch!"

Sorry for being so snarky, but this really ticks me off.

Look at it this way, suppose I had a full tank of gas, and there was no more gas to be had. I'd drive you to the hospital if you needed to go. But I wouldn't siphon some out so you could drive your car to the lake to party. And I certainly wouldn't do it if you offered me $0.39 per gallon!

yes, I'm an old grump, especially on this issue. Hoarder!! pffft!
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Today, 02:10 AM #58
Tom Servo
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Lots and lots of people, for whom it was never any concern or interest suddenly have both.

As a corollary, I'm pretty much over the idea that Joe Bob has to get his AR-15 and ammo before the ban, but he has no interest in doing anything to prevent the ban.

He'll waste all sorts of gas, money, time, and effort tracking down a couple of 30-round magazines, but he can't donate $50 to a 2nd Amendment organization. He'll regale me with his weird and often tasteless political theories, but he won't take the time to write his legislators. Heck, from what I've seen of the voter turnout numbers, he didn't even vote in the last few elections.

Once he's got the totem weapon he thinks he needs (and probably won't learn to use properly), his interest in the gun culture will wane to nearly zero. If the storm passes with no significant fallout, he'll grow tired of all that stuff he hoarded, and by late summer, it'll be a buyer's market for unfired military-pattern rifles and sealed cases of ammo.

We saw this in the 2008-2009 mess, and we're seeing it now, only on a larger scale.
offended much?

I never said to sell a person a 1000 rounds for what you gave for it. I also did not say to sell to everyone in your community what you paid for it.

What I meant was that friends, next door neighbors, closely associated coworkers or family who you have talked to who have NO ammo for a gun whatsoever, especially for those who have just bought a gun for the first time. To sell or simply just give them enough ammo for defense or for serious hunting for food purposes.

At least this much I know, that an opportunists is the last person I would trust in a gone south situation. So if you are fine with making a huge profit, at a person in needs expense, than be prepared to understand when you have trouble getting people to trust you for friendship or to have their back and back you up.

Of course this directly correlates with those of us who have more than enough ammo and than some to spare.

A friend in need, is a friend indeed.
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Old February 25, 2013, 10:21 AM   #65
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I don't believe there's any such thing, and I think it's fundamentally unAmerican to complain about other people buying stuff.
That pretty much sums it up for me. I'm getting sick of all the hoarding complaints, and also the price gouging talk. Personal freedom is a big part of what the constitution is meant to preserve. So it gets annoying when folks cuss the government for telling us what we "need" but then turn around and tell others how they should/should not conduct sales or how they should/should not spend their money. Or to put it more plainly, how they "need" to exercise their personal freedoms.

I'll decide how I conduct my finances and personal purchases for myself. That's MY business. Don't tread on me.
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Old February 25, 2013, 10:36 AM   #66
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That pretty much sums it up for me. I'm getting sick of all the hoarding complaints, and also the price gouging talk. Personal freedom is a big part of what the constitution is meant to preserve. So it gets annoying when folks cuss the government for telling us what we "need" but then turn around and tell others how they should/should not conduct sales or how they should/should not spend their money. Or to put it more plainly, how they "need" to exercise their personal freedoms.

I'll decide how I conduct my finances and personal purchases for myself. That's MY business. Don't tread on me.
To an extent I agree with you. But I also don't think that "screw you - I got mine" is a particularly righteous, noble or "American" attitude, either.

We can talk about free markets, the "invisible hand" and personal freedoms all day, but any individual's actions affect everyone else as well. With a finite resource, every widget you buy is a widget that's no longer available for anyone else to buy - that's simple "laws of physics" stuff.

So while a buyer may be completely within his legal and moral rights to buy up every single round of ammo he can lay his hands on, even in times of near-universal scarcity, either to stockpile it away or to turn around and sell it for profit, I'm still going to call him out for being the douchebag he is.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:44 AM   #67
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At least this much I know, that an opportunists is the last person I would trust in a gone south situation. So if you are fine with making a huge profit, at a person in needs expense, than be prepared to understand when you have trouble getting people to trust you for friendship or to have their back and back you up.

Of course this directly correlates with those of us who have more than enough ammo and than some to spare.
It is simple for me. I am not making a huge profit nor trying to because I am simply not selling. Frankly I don't have enough to sell unless one means a box or two of ammunition.

All that said, and with regard to the shortage and buying all you can get your hands on and so forth... if I saw 10 boxes of .40 S&W tomorrow, I would buy all 10 if they were JHP's at normal pricing. But I am not actively looking to buy ammunition either. I'm not standing in line at Gander Mountain, Dicks or where ever in hope of finding a box or two of 22 ammo.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; February 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:42 PM   #68
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I don't believe there's any such thing, and I think it's fundamentally unAmerican to complain about other people buying stuff.
I'll echo this thought in its entirety and also add:

I think that someAmericans are buying lots of ammo for "preparation," above all else.

Take that as you wish
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:04 PM   #69
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I've 223 ammo that cost me $3 for 20 rounds when I bought it. Sorry I ain't sellig it for what I paid for it.

I have a neighbor who paid more for one 15 year old AR than I have in all 3 of mine, but had trouble finding ammo for a while. I did give the fellow 3 boxes with the stipulation that he return 3 boxes to me when he could find ammo. He was able to eventually find plenty, (I'm afraid to ask what he paid), and he returned the 3 boxes to me. That seemed fair to me.
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:20 PM   #70
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I'm not buying or selling in this market; just waiting it out. If a friend needed some ammo, I would give him a small amount.

I'm kind of glad I don't have a lot more rifle brass and projectiles stashed; it would be too tempting to start reloading ammo for sale.

I wish I had more .22LR stockpiled. I didn't see that one coming.
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Old February 25, 2013, 01:26 PM   #71
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I'm just gonna come out and say it.

There's a definite lack of empathy on this forum for folks that recently decided that trouble is brewing, and we needed a little more protection.

All I've seen for two months was that we were too stupid to plan ahead. Now I'm reading that the shortage is OUR fault.

I, for one, never asked anybody for anything. But I did resent the guy that bribes a clerk to get the 3K rounds before it's put on the shelf so he can resell it at 300%

I also figure the guy that has 10K in every caliber, and is still scrambling for more is just a little selfish.

After scrambling for two months, I now have enough to see me through. With NO help from anybody on ANY of the forums I visited. I also have a pretty bad taste in my mouth.

Who knows??? I might just be the guy you call on to watch your back. I'll do it too, because I was raised that way.

Maybe the ME generation is about to learn something.

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Old February 25, 2013, 02:03 PM   #72
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jnichols2, I actually agree with you. And I've mentioned before that smugly saying "should have planned ahead!" isn't really fair to the folks that just came of age in the past few months.

But having said that, what do you expect me to do? I didn't cause this problem, and there's not anything I can do to make it better. I could make it worse I guess; but even that, not significantly so.
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:06 PM   #73
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jnichols2 said (red inserts mine): I'm just gonna come out and say it. There's a definite lack of empathy on this forum for folks that recently decided that trouble is brewing, and we needed a little more protection. There is a lot of empathy in this forum. But you have to understand that as the shortage continues, generosity decreases.

All I've seen for two months was that we were too stupid to plan ahead. Now I'm reading that the shortage is OUR fault. Yes and Yes or probably
I also figure the guy that has 10K in every caliber, and is still scrambling for more is just a little selfish. Me too. Unless they shoot a lot of ammunition up very regularly.

After scrambling for two months, I now have enough to see me through. With NO help from anybody on ANY of the forums I visited. I also have a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Glad you have found enough to satisfy your short term needs. But what happens if this becomes long term?

Who knows??? I might just be the guy you call on to watch your back. I'll do it too, because I was raised that way. They would be watching your front. So, it works both ways. It takes more than one person to adequately set up a defense.
Maybe the ME generation is about to learn something Not sure what they are going to learn.
This hoarding business is all situational for each person for the most part. I feel good that I purchased ammunition at a rate that exceeded my use for the last few years. I am not going to do anything with it except eventually shoot it up. I am not preparing for a SHTF situatlon. I figure I wouldn't last long in such as scenario, but I would give it the old college try.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; February 25, 2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:22 PM   #74
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According to this definition in post #59
Quote:
Pathological or compulsive hoarding is a specific type of behavior characterized by:
•acquiring and failing to throw out a large number of items that would appear to have little or no value to others (e.g., papers, notes, flyers, newspapers, clothes)
•severe cluttering of the person's home so that it is no longer able to function as a viable living space
•significant distress or impairment of work or social life
what people are doing with ammunition is NOT hoarding since we can all agree it has value. Can we just call it stockpiling and be done with it?
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Old February 25, 2013, 02:26 PM   #75
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Can we just call it stockpiling and be done with it?
That is probably a better word for it anyway, especially given the definition of hoarding previously stated.
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