Help identify really short Mauser

Moloch · February 23, 2013, 11:57 PM

I was browsing the milsurp rifle rack in my favorite gun store when I found an odd little Mauser, made some pics right away.
I've never seen a Mauser THAT short before, a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt!

The wood was exceptionally nice looking for a milsurp rifle (Tiger stripe maple??), overall condition of the rifle was unfired and it had a grooved butt plate. Sights marked for 1400 meters.
No crest, no marks, nothing, just a serial number and a ''Mod 98'' on the receiver bridge.

scrubcedar · February 24, 2013, 01:20 AM

We had another of those "no markings mausers"recently. If you remove the stock are there markings under it? That was what we found on the last one.

BerdanSS · February 24, 2013, 01:25 AM

I hope you bought it....that thing is sweeeet

Never seen a mauser made up like that. enfields maybe.

scrubcedar · February 24, 2013, 01:51 AM

I think I may have found it. It looks like an Ethiopian FN carbine. Here is a link. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30035962 That looks like a pretty good source. Other source's mention a "FN M1930 Mauser Carbine, FN, Belgium early 1930s, cal. 7.92x57. Ethiopian contract carbine" that looks the same as well but the ones mentioned had Ethiopian as well as Israeli markings.

Scorch · February 24, 2013, 01:59 AM

Model 1930 FN short rifles were sold to many armies around the world. Looks beautiful, got to be one in a million with that kind of wood on it.

Moloch · February 24, 2013, 08:38 AM

Quote:

I think I may have found it. It looks like an Ethiopian FN carbine.

I think you are right, though the barrel between the first and the second barrel band is not covered by the handguard.

The owner wants 350 for it, maybe I'll go and pick it up next week if its still there. I don't really need it but it looks like brand new and its kinda neat.

mapsjanhere · February 24, 2013, 09:35 AM

Very wise of you not putting your location under your name, otherwise I'd be out scavenging. $350 for a great shape military Mauser is a steal nowadays.

SGreve32x · February 24, 2013, 01:36 PM

That has some beautiful looking wood on that thing!!!

EIGHTYDUECE · February 24, 2013, 02:26 PM

Mauser tanker carbine. I have seen Persian versions around here but not in that good of shape and those had Farsi numbers on the rear sight.

JD0x0 · February 24, 2013, 03:31 PM

17'' barrel and sights for 1400 meters? Crazy Germans! Really nice rifle

**4V50 Gary** · February 24, 2013, 03:47 PM

The Iranians also had a 17" or so short barrel Mauser 98k.

That wood is gorgeous!

Dfariswheel · February 24, 2013, 08:20 PM

In the 1920's and 30's a lot of 17" barreled Mauser's were made by FN for sales all over the world.
Among others Colombia bought them and later converted many of them to 30-06 after we gave them the ammo after the war.

Muzzle blast on mine was ferocious but controllable.

One of the most interesting 98 carbines I owned was an Indonesian plantation guard carbine.
It was made by FN and had a diamond shaped receiver crest with a stylized IOB monogram.

Note that in the last few years importers have been selling cut-down rifles converted into "tanker carbines". These have been made using M1917 and P-14 rifles, Lee-Enfield rifles, and 98 Mauser's.
Buy carefully to avoid getting one of these cut-downs and not an original Mauser carbine.

Willie Sutton · February 24, 2013, 10:28 PM

Likely a cut down.... having collected Mausers for almost 30 years, and have several short rifles in my collection (Persian, Columbian, G33/40, etc). Wood generally would only be that grade in a South Amercan Mauser, as they often specified the best. The "Mod 98" marking is not one associated with other than German military issue though and would never be on a FN manufactured rifle. All of the contract guns have crests of some sort. So what we have is a mystery, which generally in Mauser collecting means a built-up rifle of some sort. In any event it's pretty and for that price is a "buy" recommendation.

Willie

.

tahoe2 · February 25, 2013, 09:41 AM

that makes a handy "woods" carbine, I want one !!

spitpatch · February 25, 2013, 12:37 PM

If you don't buy it let us know where it's at.

johnwilliamson062 · February 25, 2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt!

Wouldn't recoil be less?

emcon5 · February 25, 2013, 09:44 PM

Isn't Captain Bubba, AKA Mitchell selling something like that? New production from Zastava.

http://www.zastava-arms.co.rs/cms/index.php?id=248

Moloch · February 25, 2013, 10:06 PM

@Johnwilliamson

Funny. If we assume that the velocity loss in the carbine barrel is ~200 fps its going to kick exactly as hard as the standard Mauser k98k. According to the recoil calculator. Its going to produce a lot more blast though, and just as a rocket this creates thrust which adds to the recoil.

Its the same size as the Mitchell tanker Mauser, but it looks differently. The whole bolt is blued, the bolt handle is bent differently, the wood is darker and looks much better and I don't remember seeing any manufacturer stamps on the rifle.

By the way, why can't I quote? I can't find the button anymore...

Rainbow Demon · February 26, 2013, 03:17 AM

Quote:

By the way, why can't I quote? I can't find the button anymore...

Never could find a reply with quote button here.
To quote some one I just type in the quote brackets
use [quote] at the begining , copy and paste the desired text, the add /quote (also in brackets) at the end.

I had an iranian carbine and it kicked like Bruce Lee on crack.
It was not a lightweight carbine, the barrel under the handguard was very thick and came to a angled shoulder just before emerging from the guard.
Still over all weight had to be at least one pound less than a 98K.
I was using some rather hot milsurp ammo, but I suspect that a sort of rocket effect of the muzzle blast my have added to the recoil.
Muzzle bast extended about four feet, and it was so loud that on the first shot I thought the gun had blown up.
I started handloading with this carbine, using light charges of IMR 4198, power level was a bit more than .30-30 levels and accuracy was greatly improved. Muzzle blast was not bad. The faster powder was more efficient in the short barrel.

The .30-06 Police carbine versions sold to a South American country were intended for use with a downloaded cartridge about the power level of a .30-30.
I've been told that when the .30-06 police carbine became obsolete that the ammo manufactured for it was given to military schools where they used it in older Mauser rifles for target shooting at a two hundred yard range.

Thats one fine looking stock. I'd jump on it.

SGreve32x · February 26, 2013, 11:18 PM

The furniture on that is amazing!

BerdanSS · February 27, 2013, 11:28 AM

Moloch

Have you bought it yet?!

If you don't....ME DO WANT!

JD0x0 · February 27, 2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt!

Quote:

Wouldn't recoil be less?

IME, a shortened barrel has more muzzle blast and more recoil because it's shorter and lighter. Even though muzzle energy is lower, recoil is higher.

Pharm · February 27, 2013, 04:51 PM

[QUOTEQuote:
a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt!

Quote:
Wouldn't recoil be less?

IME, a shortened barrel has more muzzle blast and more recoil because it's shorter and lighter. Even though muzzle energy is lower, recoil is higher. ][/QUOTE]

I agree even though you'd lose velocity, the recoil may be a bit more due to a lighter rifle. I don't think factory 8mm Mauser loadings are going to be much in the recoil dept. however.

wpsdlrg · February 28, 2013, 07:29 PM

The stock is (tiger striped) WALNUT. One of the most beautiful I've ever seen - especially on a military rifle. Old growth wood, available in Europe before WW2. Sadly, WW2 consumed most of the really nice walnut there, so there is very little of it, with THAT kind of figure, to be found now. Of course, there is lots of walnut around - replanted after the war. But, wood with THAT degree of figure is quite rare.

I'd buy the carbine just for the stock.....if I had the chance.

February 23, 2013, 11:57 PM	#1
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,278	Help identify really short Mauser I was browsing the milsurp rifle rack in my favorite gun store when I found an odd little Mauser, made some pics right away. I've never seen a Mauser THAT short before, a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt! The wood was exceptionally nice looking for a milsurp rifle (Tiger stripe maple??), overall condition of the rifle was unfired and it had a grooved butt plate. Sights marked for 1400 meters. No crest, no marks, nothing, just a serial number and a ''Mod 98'' on the receiver bridge.

February 24, 2013, 01:20 AM	#2
scrubcedar Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2012 Location: Northern UT Posts: 473	We had another of those "no markings mausers"recently. If you remove the stock are there markings under it? That was what we found on the last one. __________________ Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado

February 24, 2013, 01:51 AM	#4
scrubcedar Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2012 Location: Northern UT Posts: 473	I think I may have found it. It looks like an Ethiopian FN carbine. Here is a link. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30035962 That looks like a pretty good source. Other source's mention a "FN M1930 Mauser Carbine, FN, Belgium early 1930s, cal. 7.92x57. Ethiopian contract carbine" that looks the same as well but the ones mentioned had Ethiopian as well as Israeli markings. __________________ Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado

February 24, 2013, 01:59 AM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 11,033	Model 1930 FN short rifles were sold to many armies around the world. Looks beautiful, got to be one in a million with that kind of wood on it. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Taylor Machine

February 24, 2013, 09:35 AM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,270	Very wise of you not putting your location under your name, otherwise I'd be out scavenging. $350 for a great shape military Mauser is a steal nowadays. __________________ F 135 - the right choice

February 24, 2013, 01:25 AM	#3
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 578	I hope you bought it....that thing is sweeeet Never seen a mauser made up like that. enfields maybe.

February 24, 2013, 01:36 PM	#8
SGreve32x Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Location: J'Ville, Iowa Posts: 27	That has some beautiful looking wood on that thing!!!

February 24, 2013, 02:26 PM	#9
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 406	Mauser tanker carbine. I have seen Persian versions around here but not in that good of shape and those had Farsi numbers on the rear sight. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" I'm the same fellow as Captain H (found my old password ) Last edited by EIGHTYDUECE; February 24, 2013 at 07:53 PM.

February 24, 2013, 03:31 PM	#10
JD0x0 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Posts: 128	17'' barrel and sights for 1400 meters? Crazy Germans! Really nice rifle

February 24, 2013, 03:47 PM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 15,421	The Iranians also had a 17" or so short barrel Mauser 98k. That wood is gorgeous! __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 24, 2013, 08:20 PM	#12
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 6,574	In the 1920's and 30's a lot of 17" barreled Mauser's were made by FN for sales all over the world. Among others Colombia bought them and later converted many of them to 30-06 after we gave them the ammo after the war. Muzzle blast on mine was ferocious but controllable. One of the most interesting 98 carbines I owned was an Indonesian plantation guard carbine. It was made by FN and had a diamond shaped receiver crest with a stylized IOB monogram. Note that in the last few years importers have been selling cut-down rifles converted into "tanker carbines". These have been made using M1917 and P-14 rifles, Lee-Enfield rifles, and 98 Mauser's. Buy carefully to avoid getting one of these cut-downs and not an original Mauser carbine.

February 24, 2013, 10:28 PM	#13
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Likely a cut down.... having collected Mausers for almost 30 years, and have several short rifles in my collection (Persian, Columbian, G33/40, etc). Wood generally would only be that grade in a South Amercan Mauser, as they often specified the best. The "Mod 98" marking is not one associated with other than German military issue though and would never be on a FN manufactured rifle. All of the contract guns have crests of some sort. So what we have is a mystery, which generally in Mauser collecting means a built-up rifle of some sort. In any event it's pretty and for that price is a "buy" recommendation. Willie .

February 25, 2013, 09:41 AM	#14
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 373	that makes a handy "woods" carbine, I want one !!

February 25, 2013, 12:37 PM	#15
spitpatch Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: oklahoma Posts: 116	mauser If you don't buy it let us know where it's at.

February 25, 2013, 09:44 PM	#17
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 1,294	Isn't Captain Bubba, AKA Mitchell selling something like that? New production from Zastava. http://www.zastava-arms.co.rs/cms/index.php?id=248

February 25, 2013, 10:06 PM	#18
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,278	@Johnwilliamson Funny. If we assume that the velocity loss in the carbine barrel is ~200 fps its going to kick exactly as hard as the standard Mauser k98k. According to the recoil calculator. Its going to produce a lot more blast though, and just as a rocket this creates thrust which adds to the recoil. Its the same size as the Mitchell tanker Mauser, but it looks differently. The whole bolt is blued, the bolt handle is bent differently, the wood is darker and looks much better and I don't remember seeing any manufacturer stamps on the rifle. By the way, why can't I quote? I can't find the button anymore...

February 26, 2013, 11:18 PM	#20
SGreve32x Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Location: J'Ville, Iowa Posts: 27	The furniture on that is amazing!

February 27, 2013, 11:28 AM	#21
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 578	Moloch Have you bought it yet?! If you don't....ME DO WANT!

February 27, 2013, 04:51 PM	#23
Pharm Member Join Date: February 5, 2013 Posts: 38	[QUOTEQuote: a full power 8x57 out of that 16 or 17'' barrel must hurt! Quote: Wouldn't recoil be less? IME, a shortened barrel has more muzzle blast and more recoil because it's shorter and lighter. Even though muzzle energy is lower, recoil is higher. ][/QUOTE] I agree even though you'd lose velocity, the recoil may be a bit more due to a lighter rifle. I don't think factory 8mm Mauser loadings are going to be much in the recoil dept. however.

February 28, 2013, 07:29 PM	#24
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 286	The stock is (tiger striped) WALNUT. One of the most beautiful I've ever seen - especially on a military rifle. Old growth wood, available in Europe before WW2. Sadly, WW2 consumed most of the really nice walnut there, so there is very little of it, with THAT kind of figure, to be found now. Of course, there is lots of walnut around - replanted after the war. But, wood with THAT degree of figure is quite rare. I'd buy the carbine just for the stock.....if I had the chance.