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Old February 23, 2013, 09:49 PM   #26
shootniron
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There was a woman in Connecticut who should have secured her guns in a safe with a combination that only she knew. If she did, she would be alive today and another 26 innocent souls would also be with us. do what you can now with what you have for cash.
Don't blame that woman for what her son did...he would have gotten a gun somewhere else.

Last edited by shootniron; February 23, 2013 at 11:25 PM.
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Old February 23, 2013, 09:57 PM   #27
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There was a woman in Connecticut who should have secured her guns in a safe with a combination that only she knew. If she did, she would be alive today and another 26 innocent souls would also be with us.
Has anyone else noticed that we literally do not know that story?

Not a word of it.

Maybe she never locked up her guns.

Maybe she always did.

Maybe she had the gun in her hand, telling him to back off, when he hit her over the head, grabbed the gun and killed her.

Maybe she was sound asleep and he shot her in her sleep after sneaking into the safe using the combination he'd known all along.

Maybe he stole her keys.

Maybe she 'hid' the guns, but not as well as she'd thought.

Maybe he tortured her to get the combination or the location of the guns.

Maybe she handed the guns to him and asked him to kill her first.

We literally do not know.

Maybe this, maybe that, maybe the other thing. The police are sitting on those reports for some reason.

Weird, for something that so much "public policy" is being built around, that we know absolutely nothing about it.

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Old February 23, 2013, 10:23 PM   #28
berettaprofessor
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Has anyone else noticed that we literally do not know that story?
Spot on, Pax. And we're not going to find anything out until the report is released by summer at earliest; long after most of the legislation has passed.

To the OP; I tried hiding mine but my wife always finds the new ones!
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Old February 24, 2013, 03:03 AM   #29
mrbatchelor
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Where do you hide your guns...?

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Originally Posted by pax View Post
Maybe this, maybe that, maybe the other thing. The police are sitting on those reports for some reason.
Call me a cynic, but I think nothing leaks out because the evidence, were it out, doesn't support the rhetoric. I think something contradicts the rhetoric. And contradicts in a major way.

I don't know how it doesn't jive, but with the way this administration has behaved you can bet that if it was favorable to their case it would be plastered all over the media even if it so super secret and sensitive it would compromise national security for decades.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:07 AM   #30
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Well, he just broke into my home. I didn't arm him, he armed himself with stolen property.
People can argue who did what obviously they would have stolen the firearms. But that won't really matter if they use it to shoot the firearms owner. with one of their own firearms.

Having a few firearms beside someones bed in case someone might come into your house to harm you OK.

But then to leave firearms in the house easily available to burglars that could be used to harm the firearms owner or someone else is irresponsible at best.

PS It woldent be a issue here as firearms have to be stored securely .

Quote.

Firearms and shotguns to which this certificate relates must be stored securely at all times (except in certain circumstances) so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the guns by unauthorised persons"

The security of firearms, ammunition and shotguns within a dwelling can in most cases be achieved by the provision of a cabinet designed for this purpose. New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558. The cabinet should be fixed to the structure of the building and suitably located to frustrate or obstruct the points of attack or identification by persons visiting the premises. BS 7558 was introduced in 1992.

As an additional level of security, ammunition and easily removable component parts - such as rifle bolts etc - may be stored separately from the firearms they fit. This could be either by use of a detached storage container fitted elsewhere in the dwelling, or one built into or onto the firearms cabinet.

The guidelines recommend that a cabinet should have the following features:
•It should be made from sheet steel at least 14 swg (2mm) thick. All seams need to be continuously welded, or the seams should be of bend construction.
•All hinges should be fixed inside the cabinet, or hinge bolts or bars should be provided.
•Lock mechanisms should be on the inside of the cabinet. The lock should contain at lease 5 levers to BS3621 standard. Alternatively quality hardened padlocks and staples should be fitted to the cabinet.
•Because of their height, rifle cabinets should have two locks at points one third and two-thirds the height of the cabinet.
•The cabinet may contain, or have attached, a separate lockable container which.

Last edited by manta49; February 24, 2013 at 06:26 AM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 12:20 PM   #31
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No safe... keep them in a closet and install a deadbolt. Keep what you might need available, but keep the others tucked away.

Burglers know where people store guns. I don't think you will be able to hide firearms in a safe storage location from burglers. But you can make it more difficult for the casual thief.
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:01 PM   #32
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For now I bought an 18 gun Stack-on locking cabinet that I added a couple of hasps and padlocks to. It will be bolted to a wall in my closet and it will be a fairly tight fit. It will then have stuff stacked in front of it. I know it will only stop the casual thief, but there are not many safes that will keep out the thief that is intent on getting in.
This. It's a lot better than nothing while you're saving up for something better. It will deter casual thieves, and it will also secure your guns from any kids that either live with you or come to visit. Or from idiot grownups who visit, if it comes to that.

You can easily sell it later, when you have a proper safe, so you may not be out more than $40-50 or so. Cheap peace of mind.
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:56 PM   #33
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A few responders to this topic have any firearms. The rest have only bb guns.
That's why they read it but offer little info.
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:04 PM   #34
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A few responders to this topic have any firearms. The rest have only bb guns.
That's why they read it but offer little info.
So by what you're saying, you must only have BB guns.

All 2 of my rifles are on a gun rack in my room, to which they are secured to. My pistol in a safe. No burglar would take the time to get them off of it as they want to get in and out as fast as possible. If we go on vacation for awhile, they are secured in a safe.
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:06 PM   #35
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Mine used to stay hidden in various safes and GunVaults. But that was before all of my firearms got lost in a boating accident 20 miles offshore.
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:42 PM   #36
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Manta, with all due respect, we have very little interest in how your draconian government mandates that you do things on your side of the pond. Your society gave up on your rights to own firearms years ago and were voluntarily disarmed by those who govern. I know this sounds like I am trying to pick a fight when really I'm not. I'm simply stating the facts that, over here, the only ones touting how its done in the UK are the same ones who would love to disarm us as your government did to you. I would wager that you will have a hard time on a gun forum finding very many who are eager to erode their own rights.
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Old February 24, 2013, 03:25 PM   #37
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Manta, with all due respect, we have very little interest in how your draconian government mandates that you do things on your side of the pond. Your society gave up on your rights to own firearms years ago and were voluntarily disarmed by those who govern.
I am saying that's how it happens here i am not saying its a good thing that here its a requirement that you have to have a safe before getting firearms. I am not saying it would be a good thing in America. I think if you have firearms it makes sense to secure them as best you can to keep them out of the hands of burglars kids etc.

Quote:
Your society gave up on your rights to own firearms years ago and were voluntarily disarmed by those who govern
PS We didn't give up the right to own firearms i have plenty.

Quote:
would wager that you will have a hard time on a gun forum finding very many who are eager to erode their own rights.
I don't think anyone should give up their gun rights in America without taking all legitimate and legal measures to try and stop it. And even if strict gun controls were brought into force in America tomorrow i don't it would stop incidents like the resent mass shooting that started the current gun control debate in America.

Last edited by manta49; February 24, 2013 at 03:42 PM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 03:58 PM   #38
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That's a hell of a thing to ask a man
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Old February 24, 2013, 04:11 PM   #39
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When I was younger I lifted up the carpet in a bedroom near a cornet and cut a section of the flooring over two floor joists and formed the "door" to a bit over a gun length space. Took up the carpet at the edges all around so it just looked like a crappy job of carpetlaying. Worked great, when my home was broken into a year or two later they didn't get my guns.
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Old February 24, 2013, 04:15 PM   #40
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In my safe, except for the one on my hip.
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Old February 24, 2013, 04:22 PM   #41
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Stop attacking law abiding citizens for what criminals do. They're criminals! Blame them. It's that simple.
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Old February 24, 2013, 04:26 PM   #42
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First... thanks to the 2-3 persons who actually answered the OP's question. It's an interesting topic, but saying "get a safe" did not answer the question. Nor did the old saw about losing them in the lake. You guys need new writers.

I've seen where someone manufactures a type of lockable under-the-bed drawer that holds firearms. And, I'm sure that online there are directions for making a relatively inexpensive gun rack behind a false wall. Obviously, if an indivdual knows that you have several firerams AND/OR he has unlimited time to search your house, you may well be out of luck. But, for the "average" thief who will spend limited time checking a house before taking off, some of these options might work. Just a thought.

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Old February 24, 2013, 06:39 PM   #43
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Hiding from the feds -- they are best buried off site. The feds will strip your house.
If it's time to hide our guns from the feds, it's time to dig them up. Or just go along with the new AWB or whatever is passed, like we did with the original AW ban, or the NFA.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:45 PM   #44
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And, I'm sure that online there are directions for making a relatively inexpensive gun rack behind a false wall.
Here's a product that looks interesting: http://tacticalwalls.com/

Haven't tried that one myself, but it looks good.

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Old February 24, 2013, 10:50 PM   #45
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I think if you have firearms it makes sense to secure them as best you can to keep them out of the hands of burglars kids etc.
Mant, don't take this wrong but you posted in another thread that you read that 500 children were killed accidently by firearms in the US per year.

Do you think you might instead start from an accurate set of facts first?

Household members are safer in the home of legal gun owners.

In your jurisdiction in the UK you are forced to do things that severely limit your freedom and don't increase your safety. You have blanket laws on securing firearms that are not based on any facts, no indications it adds anything but expense and no allowance for individual needs.

Safes often attract attention. If you have workmen who come into the home to service your air condition heating, hot water etc and you have a firearms safe downstairs, for a lot of people their risk of being burgled would skyrocket. There are no safes under $k3 that cant be opened in minutes with a small <$150 grinder using house current.

Safes can be magnets for burglury

Really what is needed instead of ineffective laws mandating what people do, what is best is sober best proctice recommendations for people in a variety of situations, based on real research that doesn't employ the absurd biases against gun owners.

If you have an 18 year old son at home that isn't an idiot, he will be able to open any safe in a few hours. If he can get his hands on a three year old smartphone with a camera he can capture the combination. In that circumstance you don't need a safe but a regime of instruction on handling and a set of rules. If you have a child who is smart but seriously mentally unbalanced, you don't need a safe, you need to reconsider possessing guns at home.

If you have no kids and live by yourself in a rural area it is an obscene abuse for the government to subject you to rules and costs that have nothing to di with your circumstances

If you are concerned with burglary and have a handgun and no kids your best protection by far is some "diversionary" method, say a hollowed out or fake book.

Also why would civilians have any different set of rules for storage at home than off duty cops?

I have five and seven year old daughters at home. the best protection in my case is small bolted $100 safes (we have a pair of Sentry Safe Quick Access Safe 0.08 Cubic Feet lockboxes) and when we are not home for any appreciable time the handguns go in a false wall which even unsecured is much safer fro burglary than any sub $3k safe.

If you don't have kids at home a cheap safe may very well be less safe than having it loaded and unsecured in the nightstand
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:21 AM   #46
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20 miles off shore...

Thanks, Puddle...

I DO have a canoe, and some DEEP lakes and reservoirs in Utah.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:23 AM   #47
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PAX

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Here's a product that looks interesting: http://tacticalwalls.com/
Thanks, PAX. Took a look. It looks to be an ABS plastic thermoformed insert. Strictly speaking there doesn't appear to be any serious security, but a really good way to hide stuff. I might just build one.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:27 AM   #48
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Consider using a metal door from a flush-mount electrical panel. Not all *that* secure but lockable, and will keep people from saying "I wonder what's in here" if they find the cutout in your closet or garage wall. It doesn't have to be the full height of a rifle to allow you to get a rifle in and out.
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Old February 25, 2013, 11:40 AM   #49
smokiniron
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Freom OP... Thanks TDL for the discussion

I appreciate TDLs discussion as well as that of others.
It doesn't hurt to quibble over the minor points of secure home storage. Each of us have varying degrees of uncertainty regarding kids, burglars, etc.

I have benefited from the points made thus far - from parties both foreign and domestic.

Just as with 'the best hunting rifle', 'the best daily carry weapon', and other such discussions, much information is shared. Most is based on opinion - and is often factual, too. Not a bad thing!

I was looking for 'opinion', as there are few 'facts' that apply universally... except possibly for the 'lost my guns in the lake' scenario.

I you have more to say on the subject, I want to hear.

I have a small firearms association in my area that I started a few months ago. Such discussions are GREAT fodder for periodic mailings. Everyone needs to think about these simple issues.

We debate the latest attacks on our 2nd Amendment rights.

We also benefit, I believe, from debate on issues pertaining to managing those rights properly.

Thanks to all...!

Keep the comments coming.

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Old February 25, 2013, 11:45 AM   #50
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ZXCVBOB

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Consider using a metal door from a flush-mount electrical panel. Not all *that* secure but lockable, and will keep people from saying "I wonder what's in here" if they find the cutout in your closet or garage wall. It doesn't have to be the full height of a rifle to allow you to get a rifle in and out.
Nice idea. You could rig the bottom of the complete box to open for gun access, then install a bunch of burned out breakers and some wires going through the box to nowhere. A cheapie padlock which the burglar cuts off will dupe him into believing you were just securing the electrical panel from kids, and that there is nothing more to see.
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