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Old February 22, 2013, 09:55 PM   #1
KyJim
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List of Companies Refusing to Sell to Anti-Gun States

I've heard of a couple of companies who have decided not to sell to governmental agencies in states banning hi-cap magazines and the like. Seems there's a list being compiled of these companies. I just wanted to pass this along so we can give them all a great big 'ATTABOY.

http://www.thepoliceloophole.com/
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Old February 23, 2013, 07:29 PM   #2
gundog5
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Good to see, thanks. I guess the big boys just don't get it. If they don't get more involved they will be out of business in the long run. Stop selling ammo, and handguns to any state agency. If we don't need guns to protect ourselves neither do they.

Police do NOT prevent violent crimes, they report it.
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Old February 23, 2013, 07:33 PM   #3
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All that will happen is that other companies will be queuing up for the contracts.
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Old February 23, 2013, 10:33 PM   #4
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That is one of the things that will happen, but it is not "all" that will happen. If enough manufacturers and suppliers stop selling to LE in anti-2A jurisdictions, it will strain the supply chain and cause delays. I've already heard rumors of LE agencies cutting back on their training because they can't get enough ammo.
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Old February 23, 2013, 11:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
I've already heard rumors of LE agencies cutting back on their training because they can't get enough ammo.
It's already happening in northern Atlanta.
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Old February 24, 2013, 05:51 AM   #6
manta49
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If enough manufacturers and suppliers stop selling to LE in anti-2A jurisdictions, it will strain the supply chain and cause delays
That won't happen money talks manufacturers are business and as long as the money keeps coming in they will supply. If one stops supplying there will be a queue of other manufacturers fighting each other to take their place. Ammunition can be brought in from other countries if necessary lets get real.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manta49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
If enough manufacturers and suppliers stop selling to LE in anti-2A jurisdictions, it will strain the supply chain and cause delays
That won't happen money talks manufacturers are business and as long as the money keeps coming in they will supply. If one stops supplying there will be a queue of other manufacturers fighting each other to take their place. Ammunition can be brought in from other countries if necessary lets get real.
Let's get real? You're telling me that you think that there are so many manufacturers that delays are impossible?

I know that money talks, but there's a finite amount it can do. Machines only run as fast as machines run. The folks working those machines can only work so many hours. Even if you hire more people and bump your factory up to 24/7 workload, machines still require maintenance, steel still requires X amount of time to process. As far as bringing ammunition in from other countries, yes, it's possible, but not without some red tape and delays. Ammunition has to be loaded. In order to load it, you have to have powder, which has to be processed. There is a limited amount of powder available for sale at any price. Did you miss the run on bullets and supplies that we're having right now?

Did you check out Tom's link? It's already happening. Seriously, let's get real.
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
I've heard of a couple of companies who have decided not to sell to governmental agencies in states banning hi-cap magazines and the like. Seems there's a list being compiled of these companies. I just wanted to pass this along so we can give them all a great big 'ATTABOY.


Perhaps i misunderstood the original post. I thought it was about manufacturers putting pressure on state governments by not selling ammunition. And that might change decisions that have being made baning high cap magazines for example. If agencies have temporary shortages of ammunition the will just use less until more comes available.


Quote:
Let's get real? You're telling me that you think that there are so many manufacturers that delays are impossible?




Over Demand could cause shortages in the sort term if there is money to be
made manufacturers will do what it takes to meet the demand. If some
manufacturers don't sell to some states some other manufacturers will.


Quote:
Did you miss the run on bullets and supplies that we're having right now?
No whats that all about. ? PS A lot of ammo here is American manufactured and there is any amount available.
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Old February 24, 2013, 10:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by manta49
Over Demand could cause shortages in the sort term if there is money to be made manufacturers will do what it takes to meet the demand. If some manufacturers don't sell to some states some other manufacturers will.
Nobody ever said the shortage would last forever, and ever and ever.
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Old February 24, 2013, 11:12 AM   #10
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They should ALL get on board with this...
I'm pleased to see that even Midway USA is participating in the boycott.

If EVERY manufacturer of firearms, components, and ammunition stopped selling to government agencies in gun-grabbing states and locales, it would get their attention in the very least.

This is a GREAT movement. We all MUST make our voices heard, and the fact that corporations are stepping up is a huge step.

They can't keep up with demand as it is. When the local PD complains to the Governor that they can't get ammo- maybe they'll re-think their legislation.
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:08 PM   #11
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Nobody ever said the shortage would last forever, and ever and ever.
All i am saying is that if some manufacturers stop supplying to government agencies others will be queuing to take their places. It might be a temporary inconvenience to some agencies but that's all.
And if it causes any significant difficulties the agencies will look at their suppliers and procurement procedures to make it doesn't happen in the future.

In other words a few manufacturers not supplying government agencies will make no difference in the long term.
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manta49
Nobody ever said the shortage would last forever, and ever and ever.
All i am saying is that if some manufacturers stop supplying to government agencies others will be queuing to take their places. It might be a temporary inconvenience to some agencies but that's all.
And if it causes any significant difficulties the agencies will look at their suppliers and procurement procedures to make it doesn't happen in the future.
Yeah, so someone will try to fill the gap. That's how markets work. Even in the short term, though, being unable to come up with enough ammo so that your officers can remain proficient (and maybe even legally qualified to do their jobs) is more than a little hassle.

As far as "some manufacturers," queuing up to take their places, there is not an infinite supply of companies with the resources, machinery, manpower, etc., to fill the gaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manta49
In other words a few manufacturers not supplying government agencies will make no difference in the long term.
For pity's sake, did you even read my original post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
That is one of the things that will happen, but it is not "all" that will happen. If enough manufacturers and suppliers stop selling to LE in anti-2A jurisdictions, it will strain the supply chain and cause delays. I've already heard rumors of LE agencies cutting back on their training because they can't get enough ammo.
There's a reason I used the phrase "enough manufacturers."
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If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:48 PM   #13
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Yeah, so someone will try to fill the gap. That's how markets work. Even in the short term, though, being unable to come up with enough ammo so that your officers can remain proficient (and maybe even legally qualified to do their jobs) is more than a little hassle.
How many rounds is the average officer required use in training to qualify to do their job in America. Do they have to do firearms training courses once a month once a year to stay firearms qualified. As for being proficient some can shoot all the rounds they want and still not be proficient with firearms.

Quote:
There's a reason I used the phrase "enough manufacturers."
Possibly but that won't happen IMO. As only time will tell we will have to come back to that one.

I would assume that companies supplying ammo etc to government agencies would have binding contracts. I would doubt that any would be willing to except the legal and financial consensuses of not fulfilling the contracts.

Last edited by manta49; February 24, 2013 at 03:13 PM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:11 PM   #14
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Thank you. It's that time and it has to start somewhere.
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:31 PM   #15
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List of Companies Refusing to Sell to Anti-Gun States

I don't see any traction until US companies like Ruger, Colt, S&W and others start joining in this effort.
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Old February 24, 2013, 03:56 PM   #16
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^^ I bet if Bill Ruger were still alive they would be on board. Companies run by a man who gives his own name to the firm are usually run by men who have strong principles and work towards them. Once companies are run by a board of directors... things change.

Heck, if Bill Ruger ran it they would probably still make the Old Army too...


The others... they are not going to even address this.



Willie

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Old February 24, 2013, 04:50 PM   #17
teeroux
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^^ I bet if Bill Ruger were still alive they would be on board.
On board the other way you mean. He was one of the manufacturers that went along with the original failed ban.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:08 PM   #18
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"No honest man needs a magazine holding more than ten rounds" was Bill Ruger's infamous line back then.

Or words to that effect, it may not be word for word like that.

But he was responsible for the 10 round limit on magazines, and many people thought it was to save his Mini-14 from the ban.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:33 PM   #19
Willie Sutton
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^^

This important trivia escaped me previously, and I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to have had my education improved. Having Googled to my satisfaction, I am ashamed that I did not know this.



On March 30, 1989, Bill Ruger sent a letter to every member of the US Congress stating:

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives." William B. Ruger




Uhh... <sigh>... I can assure you that I will never again consider purchase of a Ruger product. Memories of these things should be indefinate.




Willie

.

Last edited by Willie Sutton; February 24, 2013 at 06:41 PM.
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Old February 24, 2013, 06:47 PM   #20
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Yeah, as much as I like Ruger firearms, the bit about Bill Ruger is true. There are lots of gun owners that are still mad about it, too.
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If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:39 PM   #21
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I can assure you that I will never again consider purchase of a Ruger product. Memories of these things should be indefinate
Bill Ruger died several years ago. I've spoken to several Ruger representatives, and the company has distanced itself from his sentiments.

Some of their highest-selling firearms, such as the SR9, the P95, the Mini-14, and their AR-15 are designed and marketed as standard-capacity firearms.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:43 PM   #22
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The Smith and Wesson Hillary Hole and Ruger's anti-gun views are why I haven't been thrilled about sending money to either company.
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Old February 24, 2013, 11:19 PM   #23
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All i am saying is that if some manufacturers stop supplying to government agencies others will be queuing to take their places. It might be a temporary inconvenience to some agencies but that's all.
It is a smart move by the companies participating in the refusal.
It highlights which firearms companies care about the second amendment which will proved a long term branding and goodwill benefit to those companies.
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Old February 24, 2013, 11:30 PM   #24
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I am glad to see Gov't agencies hurting like we are, frankly.

They need to remember who provides their paychecks, as do the manufacturers.

They make a ton more money off civies than they do the gov't.

STAND AND FIGHT,

NOW!
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:40 AM   #25
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....and Ruger's anti-gun views...
What's that again? I didn't realize we were still living in the '90s.. The Ruger of 2013 is stepping up to defend us: http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/

Buy with confidence.
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