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Old February 21, 2013, 09:20 PM   #1
reynolds357
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Federal Deer Thugs Ammo

Is this stuff the same thing as Fusion? Same price, looks like same bullet, same trajectories. Before you ask "why not just buy fusion?" I cant find it without ordering it from someone online and paying freight, but Wal Mart has the shelves busting at the seams with "Deer thugs" sitting in the same spots where "Fusion" used to set.
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Old February 23, 2013, 03:08 PM   #2
Newton24b
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its the same identical ammunition. all that changed was the package.

walmart sponsors the "deer thugz" ""hunting"" show. as a result they now sell ammunition that has the show logo on it. just like they sell the atr with deer thugz logo.
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Old February 23, 2013, 09:29 PM   #3
reynolds357
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Thanks,
Ill go buy more.
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Old February 24, 2013, 12:07 PM   #4
Nathan
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Hilarious you were serious about "deer thugs"! I was sure that was a misspelling!
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Old February 24, 2013, 12:14 PM   #5
Mike40-11
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Huh. I came over to this thread to be amused by the misspelling of "deer slugs" as "deer thugs". Evidently it's not an error.
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Old February 24, 2013, 12:15 PM   #6
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Ha, great minds and all that, Nathan. According to google Deer Thugs is a legitimate "thing". Whaddaya know.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:08 PM   #7
reynolds357
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I looked at it real close and the velocities and trajectories are a little different than fusion. Thee bullets may be fusion, but the powder charges are different.
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Old March 27, 2013, 06:09 AM   #8
rjstone5455
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Deer Thugs Ballistics

I contacted Federal to get the ballistics data for their Deer Thugs ammo for my .308. Here is what they sent for the 165 grain bullets. Muzzle velocity is 2659 fps and muzzle energy is 2575. At 100 yards it's 2450 & 2205 and at 200 yards it's 2270 & 1880. THIS IS NOT EQUAL to their Fusion rounds according to their own website. The Thug rounds are not as hot as Fusion rounds of the same caliber and bullet weight.
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Old March 27, 2013, 05:20 PM   #9
reynolds357
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In .243 Win, they are a little hotter than Fusion. I have come to the conclusion they are most likely loaded with the new Deep Curl bullet from Speer.
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Old May 22, 2013, 10:38 AM   #10
wapiti275
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Federal Deer Thug Bullets

Well, I am new to the post, very fun to read and I am looking forward to helping but more, learning from you all as well. I am responding the the Deer Thug talk.

I wrote Federal several times. I finally got an answer. I had asked about the Fusion compared to the Thug. I asked about using this bonded bullet for Elk as well, since the grain of bullets were heavy enough for it. I asked about bullet separation and such, Fusion having that reputation. I have see the damage that Fusion bullet produces, wow, explodes and massive damage. Well here is the most I could get out of them. Now, I will say I tried it in my .300 WSM and my .30 WM and the accuracy was very impressive. SUB MOA out to 300 yards. I was quit surprised. I was shooting Tikka T3's and Zeiss Conquest glass. Never the less, it shot well. Here is Federals note to me.

Good afternoon David,

The Deer Thug is a special line we have this year. It is a Wal Mart exclusive and it is a bonded bullet with a flat base heel to it. That's what makes it different from the Fusion bullet. It is very accurate and would hold together and not explode. It would make a great Elk bullet.

Thanks
Federal Ammunition
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Old May 22, 2013, 10:45 AM   #11
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A rather unfortunate product name, methinks.
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Old May 22, 2013, 07:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
it is a bonded bullet with a flat base heel to it
Sounds like a Speer Deepcurl to me since the Deepcurl is essentially the same as the Fusion bullet but with a flat base. So the Fusion should be a little more accurate at longer range, but under 300 yards or so you probably wont notice a whole lot of difference other than what the different powder charges cause. So would one be better than the other? Depends on what you're doing.

On the other hand, if it's been manufactured especially for Wal-Mart, you may wanna stay away from it
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:59 AM   #13
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It is the "Power Shok" line of ammo that used to come in the blue box. it has just been re-branded with a fancy name.
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Old May 23, 2013, 06:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Deer Thug Bullets
Please tell me this is a joke? A serious company did NOT actually give one of their products a name like that?
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Old May 23, 2013, 06:37 AM   #15
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You guys need to get out more. Having a cute name for your ammo seems to be the latest marketing gimmick.

"Deer Thugs", "Hog Hammers", etc.

I'm going to start naming some of my loads "Paper Pummelers" and "Steel Stompers".
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:13 AM   #16
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You guys need to get out more. Having a cute name for your ammo seems to be the latest marketing gimmick.

"Deer Thugs", "Hog Hammers", etc.

I'm going to start naming some of my loads "Paper Pummelers" and "Steel Stompers".
I guess since I buy so little commercial ammo, I've been leading a sheltered life.
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Old May 23, 2013, 01:41 PM   #17
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Whats worse than shooting ammo named "Deer Thugs" would be to own a rifle that bears the name-

http://mossberg.com/products/rifles/...e/mossberg-atr
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Old May 23, 2013, 07:51 PM   #18
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JMR40, its most definitely NOT Powershock.
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:10 PM   #19
jmr40
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JMR40, its most definitely NOT Powershock.
That is what it says right on the box.



And on Federal's website. Along with a photo of the old blue box.

http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...e_compare.aspx

A photo of the old box. Compare the specs on the box and the website.


Last edited by jmr40; May 23, 2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old May 24, 2013, 08:35 PM   #20
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JMR,
It may say Power Shok on the box, but I think that just means it is Federal's economy line of ammunition. It also says "Bonded Soft Point" on the box, and the original Federal Blue Box Power Shok ammo had standard cup and core bullets. I agree with the other posters that believe the new "Deer Thugs" ammo are loaded with Speer's new Deep Curl bullets. Probably why it is so hard to find the Deep Curls for reloading. Walmart is buying 90% of Speer's production. I guess ATK is trying to outdo Hornady in the awful marketing effort. (Zombie Max vs. Deer Thugs? I don't think anybody wins, unless it would be anti-gunners...)
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Old May 24, 2013, 09:27 PM   #21
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there is so much special edition ammo out there that it's moronic.
troy landry CCI rim fires
hog buster 223,
deer thugs centerfire....

it's all the same as the standard brand but with celebrity endorsement.
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Old May 24, 2013, 09:30 PM   #22
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JMR,
It may say Power Shok on the box, but I think that just means it is Federal's economy line of ammunition. It also says "Bonded Soft Point" on the box, and the original Federal Blue Box Power Shok ammo had standard cup and core bullets. I agree with the other posters that believe the new "Deer Thugs" ammo are loaded with Speer's new Deep Curl bullets. Probably why it is so hard to find the Deep Curls for reloading. Walmart is buying 90% of Speer's production. I guess ATK is trying to outdo Hornady in the awful marketing effort. (Zombie Max vs. Deer Thugs? I don't think anybody wins, unless it would be anti-gunners...)
powershok has nothing to do with what bullets they use, there are a half dozen of different options in the same blue box. it has to do with their QC and powder charge. the box says power shok... the ammo inside is powershok. I've never heard a more moronic argument in my life...
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
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You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old May 25, 2013, 03:56 PM   #23
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powershok has nothing to do with what bullets they use, there are a half dozen of different options in the same blue box. it has to do with their QC and powder charge. the box says power shok... the ammo inside is powershok. I've never heard a more moronic argument in my life...
I beg to differ. The ammo inside the box is not the same ammo as the blue box powershok Federal has offered before. It isn't the same as the red box powershok that Walmart offered previously either. At least not in the .243 Winchester cartridge. The ammo in those boxes had conventional soft point bullets, where the new Deer Thugs ammo has bonded soft point bullets not previously offered in Federal's budget line of ammo.
And I was offering my observations, not arguing. But hey, if you have all the answers, I don't know why you bother reading others posts, unless of course, it is to point out "moronic arguments" when you see them.
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Old May 25, 2013, 06:46 PM   #24
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I beg to differ. The ammo inside the box is not the same ammo as the blue box powershok Federal has offered before. It isn't the same as the red box powershok that Walmart offered previously either. At least not in the .243 Winchester cartridge. The ammo in those boxes had conventional soft point bullets, where the new Deer Thugs ammo has bonded soft point bullets not previously offered in Federal's budget line of ammo.
And I was offering my observations, not arguing. But hey, if you have all the answers, I don't know why you bother reading others posts, unless of course, it is to point out "moronic arguments" when you see them.
I believe the red box was game shok, not powershok but I could be wrong there but you are insisting that the ammo in the box is something other than what is being advertized... I doubt ATKs lawyers would be very happy about something like that.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old May 25, 2013, 08:24 PM   #25
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I believe the red box was game shok, not powershok but I could be wrong there but you are insisting that the ammo in the box is something other than what is being advertized... I doubt ATKs lawyers would be very happy about something like that.
Well, the 3 red boxes I have in my reloading room say Power-Shok, and the only obvious difference between them and the blue box Power-Shok is that they used thinner cheaper cardboard for the boxes. As for ATK's lawyers not being happy with changing what constitutes Power-Shok ammo, here is the quote from Federal's current website:

"When hunting the woods and clearings, you need a bullet that handles any situation. Power-Shok provides you with consistent and proven performance without a high-dollar price tag. It’s an great all-around choice for medium to large-game. Find good quality, standard bullets in a variety of calibers, including less popular calibers."
Note it states nothing specific about exactly what constitutes Power-Shok ammo other than it provides consistent and proven performance without a high dollar price tag. So Federal is free to load those with the cheapest powder they can find along with their own primers and probably Speer's cheapest bullets, since they are part of the same conglomerate.
I still maintain that the Deer Thugs Power-Shok ammo is not the old Power-Shok ammo and in the .243 Winchester is most probably loaded with the Speer 80 gr and 90 gr Deep Curl bullets. The old blue box Power-Shoks were loaded with 80 gr and 100 gr lead tipped pointed spitzer bullets. If anything, these new "Deer Thugs" are the old Power-Shoks loaded with a new and improved bonded bullet. I did notice a fairly significant price increase over the previous red box ammo at the local WalMart. No surprise there, given the current market conditions.
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