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Old February 20, 2013, 11:05 PM   #1
Kalamity Kate
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Questions on the aspects of certain 22 pistols

I am basically gun-dumb and looking for a 22 Target pistol for marksmanship work at the range. I have two handguns-a Glock 27 and a S&W 642 but ammunition for them is way too expensive to use for target practice.
The search is narrowed to the following pistols:
- S&W M+P 22
- Ruger Mk III- Target/ Competition or Hunter
- Ruger SR22
- Browning Buckmark Camper
- Baretta Neos

From reading the forums online, the Rugers seem to be difficult to disassemble for cleaning. That is more of a problem for those of us who have to figure out how to do it from the small print and fuzzy pictures of the manual than it would be for those of you who are experienced gun people.

I owned a Browning 22 target pistol about 30 years ago and lost any possible affection for it when it opened my hand at the thumb pad while disassembling it for cleaning. I was told to be careful because it could fly apart but, in my nervousness, it went sproing all over the room. I left my ex to clean up the gun mess while I cleaned up the blood. I am still leery of Brownings, though they may be different now.

I have no information on the S&W M+P22 or the Baretta Neos and these two are actually available in a local gun shop but may not be for much longer.

I would appreciate any input you all may have concerning these pistols. Thank you.
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Old February 20, 2013, 11:14 PM   #2
nazshooter
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Re: Questions on the aspects of certain 22 pistols

These days with youtube videos to walk you through the process I don't think you have to worry about the difficulty of cleaning the Ruger. It's really not THAT hard anyway.
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Old February 20, 2013, 11:25 PM   #3
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You can't go wrong with any on your list. Mine wouldn't include the Neos, but that's a personal taste thing. I think they look like they should squirt water out of theme when you pull the trigger.
The S&W more approximates a carry type centerfire, but for some the grip is too small. I think they are a big improvement on the Walther P22 design which I have, and enjoy. I also have a Buckmark Camper. It is very accurate, and reliable.
The bottom line is what feels the best to you, and what you feel you will be able to shoot the best.
Of course right now availability is another factor If you want something right now.
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Old February 20, 2013, 11:30 PM   #4
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sea2Z4VK1Qs
I have Neos and like it for the money. But be aware , you can slice your thumb on it as well. Disassembled, it des have some sharp edges.
But after 15 min trigger job , that thing rocks. With the little red dot on top of the rail...... Love it
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Old February 20, 2013, 11:30 PM   #5
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Just my $.02, but for any kind of real target work, I would take the Ruger first. If the Mk III would be too hard to dis/reassemble, you might look around for a used Mk II or even a Mrk I; it takes a lot to wear one out.

Next would be the Buckmark, tied with the S&W. The others would be last.

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Old February 21, 2013, 12:09 AM   #6
Kalamity Kate
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Cheapshooter, I don't care if it looks like a water gun- so long as it isn't pink.

All the chosen models are good guns and shoot well on the range but I am concerned about other aspects that are not always talked about on the forums. If there was a concern about quality, the gun would not be on this list.

I have small hands and my Glock grip is not optimal but I make it work. The Ruger SR22 supposedly has a grip that fits small hands. From the responses here, so does the S&W M+P22, though I had not read that elsewhere, so I learned something. If the Neos has a problem with sharp edges and is difficult to disassemble, then it is not useful to me. If the Ruger is "not very difficult" to an experienced gun handler then it may still be difficult for me.

You Tube doesn't help if the handgun or rifle must be assembled/ disassembled away from the video. Simple is best here. In fact, You Tube doesn't help for small things that are not actually in the room with you but on a wee computer screen. I can use You Tube to artificially inseminate a chicken and to train a dog trick or build a birdhouse but not to take apart and reassemble a gun.

Thank you for taking the time to comment. It helps in decision making. That decision must be made quickly because no gun stays in the store long in this frantic climate.
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Old February 21, 2013, 12:17 AM   #7
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For target work the Ruger (MKIII) and Browning are light years ahead of the others. As far as MIII disassembly/assembly....... issues are greatly other blown. If you can't learn how to do it quickly and easily in just a few trys then you shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm any way.
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Old February 21, 2013, 12:38 AM   #8
Kalamity Kate
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Kilkenny, perhaps that last comment is true and I shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. It is also true that women, especially single women without the support and encouragement of husbands, boyfriends or fathers, stay away from shooting ranges in droves. Your sentiments are not often expressed aloud but many women are aware of them. Fortunately, my range is trying to stay alive and growing and encourages women to join and to shoot no matter the skill or comfort level.

Thank you again, gentlemen. I appreciate your comments and opinions. I have to make up my mind in the next couple of days unless the firearms are sold before I can get to the gun stores.
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Old February 21, 2013, 12:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
.If you can't learn how to do it quickly and easily in just a few trys then you shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm any way.
Uncalled for. Not everyone is mechanically inclined enough to figure out the Ruger puzzle. She's already proven her prowess with spelling skills.
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Old February 21, 2013, 01:06 AM   #10
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My advice as far as the Ruger MKIII disassemble/reassemble is to go onto youtube and watch a couple videos of it being done. You will either be intimidated or you will feel confident that you are competent enough to do it. The first couple times of taking it apart and putting it back together may take going onto youtube and watching someone else do it in front of you, but you will quickly learn to do it without problems.

For working on target shooting it would be at the top of my list.
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Old February 21, 2013, 01:10 AM   #11
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When I was looking for .22 pistol I got a friend to let me take down his Mark III because I had heard the horror stories. I'm not mechanically inclined myself, but it really wasn't that hard. As with anything, the first time is the hardest, after doing it a time or two it's easy.

Good luck shopping, let us know what you end up with
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Old February 21, 2013, 01:25 AM   #12
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Sharp edges on the NEOS? Where!? Only thing thats sharp is when you grip the pistol to shoot it the safety pokes in to the top of your hand to let you know you need to disengage it. I wouldn't call it sharp tho... Its a fantastic pistol for the money.

Since the "M&P 22" is just a Umarex copy i cant recommend it. Any of the other guns on your list will be superior in quality.
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Old February 21, 2013, 01:47 AM   #13
Kalamity Kate
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Thank you, Alex and Tickling. That sounds like pretty good advice. I will try the video in the morning. I was also thinking that I could ask the gun shop clerk to take one apart and demo it. There isn't a Ruger Mark III in town unless it arrives in the morning and then it may be gone an hour later. But I can check out the S&W M+P 22 and the Ruger SR 22. Seeing one Ruger come apart should be very much like another of their 22 models. The Neos is in one of the same shops with one of the other the pistols so I can see it, too. If it is still there, that is. Thanks.
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Old February 21, 2013, 03:04 AM   #14
Tickling
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Seeing one Ruger come apart should be very much like another of their 22 models.
Did you mean that the SR22 and Mark III are similar to take down? They're actually very different guns. The SR22 is no harder to field strip than any other gun, and if you do a search of TFL, you'll find some glowing reviews. It's plenty accurate too so I hear as well, but IMHO it's hard to beat the Mark III for a dedicated target pistol.

I'm very curious to see what you end up with, as I am shopping for a .22 myself.

@Venom1956

The M&P is a Umarex copy then? Can you cite a source for that? I'm not calling you a liar or anything, I've been away for awhile and I'm behind the curve on some of the newer models.
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Old February 21, 2013, 03:23 AM   #15
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Browning Buck Mark or Ruger Mark III are the only two on your list that are target pistols. The M&P and SR22 in my mind are combat training pistols. I have no idea what the Neo is trying to be? I like the Ruger Mark II more than the Mark III but if you want new I would get the Browning.
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Old February 21, 2013, 03:53 AM   #16
PetahW
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.

Get the Ruger - It's the best of the listed bunch, for marksmanship/targets.

Don't worry about taking it down - it's really un-necessary.

I've been shooting a Mark II Target for the past 25 years, cleaning it after each shooting session via removing the grip panels (4 screws) & magazine before giving it a dip 'n swim/swirl in a pail of clean kerosene (from a Hess gas station), with zero issues.

The kero removes the fouling and leaves an oily residue on the hidden/inside parts, which prevents rust - I just wipedown the exterior with an oily cloth before I replace the grip panels & give the mags a bath, too.

If anyone absolutely feels a need to field strip one, though - here's the skinny: http://www.1bad69.com/ruger/field_strip.htm


.
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Old February 21, 2013, 05:45 AM   #17
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If you want the most accurate and reliable target pistol made, get the Ruger MK II/III or 22/45. However the Browning Buckmark is right on their heels IMO.

Finding a new MK III right now might be tough since every model of the MK III and 22/45 has been on backorder since before the Sandy Hook shooting. I just bought a new one a couple weeks ago after visiting about 15 different pawn shops and gun stores before finding it. People selling used ones know about this shortage and are selling them for top dollar and then some. The SR22 is a good choice as well, especially if you want to carry the gun for other than a dedicated range/target pistol.

If you want the easiest gun to clean/take apart (IMO), get the Neos Inox if you don't mind the looks. Its decently accurate as well and is at least $100 cheaper than the basic MK III target. Beretta makes alot of accesories for it as well including a carbine kit that looks kinda cool.
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Old February 21, 2013, 07:21 AM   #18
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The Ruger MK series are excellent and if you follow the manual and/or use a Youtube vid the first few times, it is actually easy to do.

If you can find a used MK II, buy it, even if you have to pay a slight premium as it does not have the loaded chamber indicator or magazine disconnect which are unnecessary and the mag disconnect adds steps in the disassembly/reassembly process. If you have to buy a MK III, they can be removed if you are so inclined.
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Old February 21, 2013, 08:51 AM   #19
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One thing I especially like about the Rugers (I have an MKIII, excellent gun that I can't praise highly enough) is the bolt action as opposed to the slide of other .22's. The bolt is easy to pull back and release, and this was a factor in deciding to get one as it is easier overall for my wife to use.

She wasn't too comfortable with semis and this has helped her in that regard.

Just thought I'd mention this as I hadn't seen it discussed.
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Old February 21, 2013, 08:53 AM   #20
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I have to say, I have a neos and like it a lot. I rarely get to shoot it, because my wife likes it more. It fits her hands wonderfully, the slide is easy to pull back, and it is very accurate. She shoots it better than I do. The trigger was a bit gritty at first, but after a few boxes it smoothed out nicely and is pretty easy to shoot well. As far as disassembly, the first time out of the box is tough, I had to use a screwdriver to leverage the disassembly wheel, but once broken free the first time, it is nothing but press a button, turn a wheel, DONE. It is crazy easy to disassemble and reassemble correctly.

I think it is phenominal that you are looking into this and going to the range. Some guys still treat this like an old mans golf type sport, but we are the first generation into turning that around. We go to our local range anymore and it is about 50/50...just how it should be. Rights pertain to all races and sexes in this country, glad to see you excersizing them!
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Old February 21, 2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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My wife loves OUR mark ll target. She will shoot it until all ammo is spent, so I have to be careful not to take more than a brick to the range. The bolt makes it, it's easy to pull and load. There is nothing out there more accurate in a 22 handgun.

Tear down/reassembly is not intuitive but it's also not that difficult. I always forget to turn it upside down, tilt the barrel downward, lift up my right foot close one eye and change my expression before it falls back together (yes I am kidding)...but once you learn the moves it's not a problem. They key is if you are forcing something you are doing something wrong. Follow the instructions and its not all that hard to do.
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Old February 21, 2013, 09:33 AM   #22
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Kilkenny, perhaps that last comment is true and I shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. It is also true that women, especially single women without the support and encouragement of husbands, boyfriends or fathers, stay away from shooting ranges in droves. Your sentiments are not often expressed aloud but many women are aware of them. Fortunately, my range is trying to stay alive and growing and encourages women to join and to shoot no matter the skill or comfort level.

Thank you again, gentlemen. I appreciate your comments and opinions. I have to make up my mind in the next couple of days unless the firearms are sold before I can get to the gun stores.
Ayah my wife and daughter shoot and can outshoot most men. I shoot better only because I shoot more. My mother used to occasionally come out with me when I was a teenager and shoot a .45ACP. I'd laugh at any kind of bias you might get (I don't actually see that much at the range or at IDPA actually).

The note about the Ruger. I have Rugers, Brownings, a Neo, Berettas, Kimbers, S&W's, and a Russian POS. The Ruger .22 by far is the hardest to strip easily. I don't care that others say it gets easy over time. Of the two I had, I was able to succesfully take each apart once, and would never do it again.

I loved my Ruger Target. It was easily the most accurate with the best trigger of any pistol I owned. We literally shot it until it shattered after about 50,000 rounds through it. But field stripping it, no way.

Now whats not been noted-try the different pistols in hand. Each has a different grip angle. Frankly I loved the Neo's strong grip angle the best.

Last edited by zincwarrior; February 21, 2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old February 21, 2013, 10:36 AM   #23
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I was in a bit of a mind fog (senior moment) when I mentioned the S&W being an improvement on the P22. I meant the Ruger SR22!
For your smaller hands it would be an excellent choice. Also, the Browning 1911-22 which is a 3/4 scale 1911 in 22 rimfire would be good.
If by marksmanship work you mean bullseye type shooting rather than SD training, and practice, the Ruger MK, Neos, or Buckmark would probably be the best choice.
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Old February 21, 2013, 10:55 AM   #24
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I would also recommend the Ruger. I do own one, and reassembly has 1 tricky step until mastered. However I am about to do something I usually do not do, stray away from your choices. If ease of disassembly is important, than perhaps a .22lr with a take down lever that makes cleaning easy. Most simple firearm for me are my Sigs. Takedown lever swings down, slide comes off. Reverse for assembly. Sig make the Classic series of .22. May be any option. May also want to look at the Sig Mosquito, or Walther P22, or any of the .22s from Chippa. Lots of options. But some research will help you make your decision. Hope this helps more than hurts. Good luck.
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Old February 21, 2013, 10:55 AM   #25
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From reading the forums online, the Rugers seem to be difficult to disassemble for cleaning. That is more of a problem for those of us who have to figure out how to do it from the small print and fuzzy pictures of the manual than it would be for those of you who are experienced gun people.
The Rugers are not difficult to disassemble for cleaning. This is a myth promulgated by people who are too lazy to read the excellent instruction manual Ruger provides with these pistols. Ruger also has excellent videos on their website if you can't be bothered to read the instructions.

The disassmbly is different from any other pistol, though. Keep the manual at hand (and follow the directions!) the first 5 or 6 times, and you will be fine.

The Ruger pistols are too good to pass up on simply because you believe the internet myths of lazy people.
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