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Old February 22, 2013, 01:04 PM   #1
bigbore96
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3000 yard shooting

I have seen videos of people shooting up to 2800 yards and having reasonable success. But I have never seen anything about shooting 3000 yards I have heard the 408 cheytac is supposed to have an effective range of over 3000 yards so why have I never seen any videos or claims of this being done. Anyone ever seen any videos of this??

Also is there a scope that would have enough drop compensation to even have a chance at that range

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Old February 23, 2013, 04:17 PM   #2
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Its definitely been done... But I'm not sure about consistency.

The problem isn't the round making it there or equipment deficiencies. 338lm will make it there with no problem, most of the rounds are made to go through the transonic envelope without losing their stability.

The problem is environmental factors and loading ammo limits. Its hard enough reading wind and trying to make an decision with 2000 yards between you and the target. By 3000 yards, every 1mph that you misread is HUGE differences. So wind is a major effect.

The loading limits I am talking about is just the limit to how well you can reload to minimize the spread of muzzle velocities. You can only reasonably limit the spread to so much... This becomes huge at these types of distances.

For example.. a 300gr berger leaving at 2800 fps drops 6157 inches. The same bullet leaving at 2810 drops 6111. An extreme spread of 10fps, which is EXCELLENT will make you hit 4ft lower, and thats before even considering linear dispersion from the accuracy of your weapon(like if your weapon is a1/2 moa rifle). This is part of the reason why accuracy from a platform gets worse the farther out you go. Even though you would expect an moa at 100 yards to be moa at 1000, it is not that simple. There is more than just linear dispersion that is behind accuracy. At long ranges, you can see how much this can matter.
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Old February 23, 2013, 06:58 PM   #3
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Neither the .408 Cheytac, nor the .416 Barrett are supersonic at 3000 yards.
.408 about 2100 yards.
.416 about 2500 yards.

I don't know about how stable the bullets remain at transonic, and then subsonic speeds, but clearly 3000 yards is outta the realm of realism.

Elevation can be compensated for by means of a substantial down-angle base.

You give up on your 30mm cannon?

If you're really interested in ELR shooting- go over to Snipers Hide, there's an entire section on the subject.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:09 AM   #4
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Mortar range.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:19 AM   #5
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Something else you'll run into, especially in shoulder-fired weapons, is optic stability. That little tremor at 300 yards is going to cover a lot of ground at 3000 yards. Not to mention wind-doping and target acquisition.

Back in the late '70s we were practicing long range gunnery at Fort Knox, a place known for lots of trees, woodlines, a standard woodland environment. We put the turret of an old M48 tank in a woodline and shot it at 2500 yards with other tanks. Many crews had trouble spotting the tank turret at 2500 yards in varying conditions of shade and foliage, so we went out with a big can of yellow paint and painted the front slope of that turret eye-strain yellow. With the 10 power optics on the telescope of the M60 series, there were some crews who had problems finding that target turret.

3000 yards is a long, long way to shoot a direct-fire weapon.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:58 AM   #6
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The only chance I'd have at hitting a target @ 3000 yards is if I moved 2500 of those yards before I shot.
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:59 AM   #7
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thanks for the info everyone
and no I have not given up on my 35mm yet I just need to find the funds
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Old February 24, 2013, 12:57 PM   #8
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Thats past my limitations. If it can be done, the .416 Barret would be the rifle to do it, but I seldom shoot over 1000 yards. Did some 1760yd shooting a few times and it runs my blood pressure up and causes me throw things.
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Old February 24, 2013, 04:44 PM   #9
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so what is the best velocity spread that you can get and how do you get it
I'm sure you would have to hand load your own but would there be a way to get the spread to a point where it could be acceptable for 3000yds
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Old February 24, 2013, 05:08 PM   #10
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3000 yards is where the mine fields should be.
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Old February 24, 2013, 07:21 PM   #11
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Velocity spread at that range...and at 1000 yards for that matter...is not the big concern.

As it always has been, it's the wind...

And we all think it's tough at 1000...
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Old February 24, 2013, 07:52 PM   #12
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Old February 24, 2013, 08:51 PM   #13
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Bigbore96,

I truly mean no disrespect, but before you can shoot 3,000 yards, you need to shoot 2,500 and before that 2,000 and 1,500... 1,000... 500... hell, 250.

Imagine if you could hold 1/2" groups at 100 yards. No small feat, but doable and not outside the realm of ordinary men. If you figured a 10% increase with each additional 100 yards, you'd be looking at something like 260 inch (yes, 21 foot) groups at 3,000 WITHOUT including any other error, like Coriolis Effect and spin drift.

Frankly, making reliable shots at 3,000 yards... at 2,000 yards... is beyond the ability that most any shooter could even train to achieve. Sure, there's men who could train to do it, pretty reliably. You've heard of at least a couple... Chris Kyle?

But, It's like asking "How do I become Derek Jeter?" You don't. If you were, you'd be out there with him.

If you plan to shoot at things that are 3,000 yards away, you'd better have money to burn, and I mean PILES of money to burn, and you better expect to miss A LOT. As in, if you ever do manage to hit the target, and by target I mean something the size of a house, it will be luck.
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:03 PM   #14
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Not precisely what the OP asked about, but interesting and roughly in the same vein.

Here's a record of testing done out to 3500 yards.

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/longrange/sandyhook.htm
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:06 PM   #15
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Re: 3000 yard shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyc View Post
Mortar range.
Artillery is always the answer! "Artiller-e!"
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Old February 24, 2013, 09:43 PM   #16
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Tracking Point (www.tracking-point.com) claims to take all the targeting parameters and gives you a realtime adjusted sighting point.

The real time guided projectiles that can substantially improve your hit ratio are coming, both from govt labs and at least 1 private company.
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Old February 25, 2013, 08:38 AM   #17
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Brian,

I think there's too many "dial and shoot" infomercial TV "programs" these days on long-range hunting.

Just point your whizbang LRF at the target, it'll automatically compensate for angle, temp, humidity-maybe even wind (where you're standing) and give you a "shoot-to" range. Good so far...

Then, you just dial your laser-engraved turret to the "shoot-to" distance, put the crosshairs on the critter, and pull the trigger.

I mean, it's simple as hell... or, is it?....
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:47 PM   #18
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It is a lot more simple than it used to be. Laser range finder gives you the actual distance you need to dial the scope up for with the exception of wind and humidity. You no longer have to guess about distance, incline, decline. Assuming you have a good scope and have your trajectory worked out right, at least you can push a button, turn one knob and have the elevation you need right. All you are left with is reading wind, humidity, mirage, and of course holding the rifle. Most of the time, I dont even touch the knobs, I just do a bit of mil math in the old head and hold accordingly.
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Old February 25, 2013, 10:58 PM   #19
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No sweat. you know the bullet will drop, right? So just aim 15 or twenty feet or yards above the targer and let fly! The bullet will hit, if Allah wills it!


Or just do what I do. Use the Force.....

Suprisingly, it sometimes works...
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Old February 26, 2013, 09:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
It is a lot more simple than it used to be.
Hell yeah... I'd be lost without Strelok

My only point is that there tends to be oversimplification of the challenges of long-range shooting on the tube...

Brand-new shooters attend "their" shooting school...
Buy "their" rifles, gear and ammo...

And become expert marksmen.

No question, custom matched rifles, ammo, and optic can make for a near perfect shooting "system".

On a day with perfect conditions, anyone with the basics of form and trigger control can indeed hit at very long range if the correct parameters are entered into the ballistic computer. Takes the guesswork out of it.

It's the 90% of days that aren't perfect, when the wind is blowing in a half-dozen different directions at different velocities downrange, that they don't talk about.
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Old February 26, 2013, 04:03 PM   #21
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You never have days like that deer hunting. All days are 100% days.
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