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Old February 18, 2013, 03:03 PM   #1
TheGoldenState
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*More* New Gun Problems

Second time out shooting my new Smith & Wesson M&P 9


I did a previous post on the slide stop not staying down w/o constant pressure.

Now, the gun is averaging 3-4 Keyholes per 10-12 shots. Looks like vertical hour glasses. Winchester 9mm ammo.

No failures of any type.

The below target has keyholes but they're almost impossible to see in the picture. Gun & mag for size/group reference. 5, 10, 25 yards.

I'll be calling Smith, RM thinks rate of twist could be apart of the issue. Anyone experience this with their M&P ???


Attached Images
File Type: jpg keyhole.jpg (20.6 KB, 413 views)
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Old February 18, 2013, 03:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Second time out shooting my new Smith & Wesson M&P .40


I did a previous post on the slide stop not staying down w/o constant pressure.

Now, the gun is averaging 3-4 Keyholes per 10-12 shots. Looks like vertical hour glasses. Winchester 9mm ammo.
Is it .40 or 9mm? I've read that the lock up on some of the 9's releases early and causes accuracy issues.
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Old February 18, 2013, 03:57 PM   #3
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"Second time out shooting my new Smith & Wesson M&P .40"
"Winchester 9mm ammo"
There's your problem!
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Old February 18, 2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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Uhhh! Hope the 9mm part was a typo if not there's you're problem.
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Old February 18, 2013, 04:00 PM   #5
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...doh!
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old February 18, 2013, 04:27 PM   #6
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LOL
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Old February 18, 2013, 04:31 PM   #7
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*More* New Gun Problems

Funny stuff
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Old February 18, 2013, 04:34 PM   #8
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Another plus for revolvers... incorrect ammo choices are more obvious.

Let's hope it was just a typo, I suspect that is the case.
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Old February 18, 2013, 05:17 PM   #9
TheGoldenState
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YES……NEW 9

I have the .40, too.


Now….on to the issue


btw….is the pic showing up? It did for me earlier, not now.
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Old February 18, 2013, 05:22 PM   #10
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No photo available for me to see - just a ? mark.
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Old February 19, 2013, 12:56 AM   #11
TheGoldenState
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^^ not sure why its not appearing.

The issue, key-holing, is what is shows though.
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Old February 21, 2013, 07:49 PM   #12
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Almost at minute 35 on the S&W customer suport center line.

"All of our representatives are currently assisting other customers, please remain on the line…"


:::::::

Update: Got through, talked to a great customer service rep. (5 minutes before he gets off) and he informed me of the lifetime warranty and is sending me a FedEx label and i'll ship the gun to them Monday morning.


***In regards to other thread….He said the take down lever not staying down (ie: needing constant pressure) is "common in that model" and that there isn't much that'll be done for it, though I can add that to my write-up when I send it in.

Very smooth CS so far, with an estimated 3-6 week return let's hope everything continues flawlessly.

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Old February 25, 2013, 06:03 PM   #13
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Looks like paper tears to me. You can see similar tears in the other bottom two holes just not as large. Too smooth for me to think tumbling bullets.
Did you have a solid back on the paper?

Looking closer it looks like there is good cardboard behind the holes but the holes in the cardboard are not keyhole shaped. They look to be round. Maybe the paper was bent off the backing?
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:13 PM   #14
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That's not keyholing....

This is what keyholing 9mm looks like:

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Old February 25, 2013, 06:17 PM   #15
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Agreed Uncle Malice.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:59 PM   #16
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Agreed Vossman. Those do not look like they are keyholes and the cardboard backing looks like normal entry.

I would hold off calling S&W just yet.
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Old February 25, 2013, 07:41 PM   #17
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Agreed. Not KEYHOLING. Just cheap target paper TEARING.

If you see KEYHOLING, you don't get the sharp dark impression in the paper, made by the bullet nose hitting the paper BEFORE it tears -- and you can see that in all of the shots...

(Generally, too, when a gun is keyholing, you don't see groups unless you're really close to the target -- you just see patterns. <grin>)
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Old February 26, 2013, 02:16 PM   #18
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More keyholing

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Old February 27, 2013, 11:20 PM   #19
TheGoldenState
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Guys,

I have the pre-paid fedex label from Smith and was/am planning on shipping tomorrow.



The two on the left, that look like vertical hour glasses are NOT keyholes???

I was getting that same exact shape (hour glass) for the 3-4 out of 10-12….

It was a hanging cardboard with paper stapled on to the front.


Again, are we certain this isn't keyholing (as you can see ive never dealt with this before, so bare with me please).


Too bad my originals pics weren't showing up; might have saved me alot of grief. If they're not keyholes, whats with the paper tearing in this way? First time ive ever had consistent hour glasses.

Thanks,
TGS
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Old February 27, 2013, 11:28 PM   #20
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I'm not sure what's causing the paper to tear that way (the 'hourglass' shape), but they're not keyholes. Like Walt said earlier, if you look closely, you can see the grey "grease mark" from the bullet penetrating the paper, and those marks are nice and round, just like the other three holes in the target.
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Old February 27, 2013, 11:30 PM   #21
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The indoor range i go to has a horizontal "mouth" clamp on the carrier that clamps on top of the cardboard to hold the target. It has a slight angle to it so the target is not directly perpindicular with the floor, the bottom of the target is behind the top of the target. That could be contributing to the keyhole looking holes, the bullets might be going in on an angle. Maybe not, just a thought
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Old February 27, 2013, 11:36 PM   #22
TheGoldenState
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Scott,

Another confirmation.

WiscBuck,

Yes, a single horizantal mouth clip is exactly what holding the cardboard.Have never noticed/had these hour glass tears tho….and it was happening on multiple targets, not just the one pictured.


**********************************************************
Looks like I get to trash the fedex label
**********************************************************


I'm not sure if i feel more RELIEF, or more EMBARRASSMENT



I wish my pics would have shown up originally……

MUCH appreciated




I almost want to delete this thread for looking like a fool, but I will leave it to hopefully help out the next keyhole-clueless person.

Thank god for this site or i'd be waiting 3-6 weeks for them to tell me there's nothing wrong.

Learned something today, that's forsure.
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Old February 28, 2013, 03:20 PM   #23
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That kind of thing can happen with some kinds of paper or with paper that is slightly damp or was damp and has dried out. It is not keyholing.

Jim
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Old February 28, 2013, 05:43 PM   #24
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You're fine TGS, no embarrassment is necessary. That's why we post here. Did you get your other take down lever issue fixed? I have 7 M&P's and only one of them will not keep the take down lever completely in line with the slide. Even then it's off by only a few degrees so not enough to worry about for me.
The M&P line is pretty dang good, shoot it and have fun.

V
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Old February 28, 2013, 08:19 PM   #25
TheGoldenState
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Thanks guys.

Voss, I wasn't going to send it in for the lever alone. When I spoke with SW tech he said he's heard about the lever alot, but wasn't sure what the shop would do about it, but to add that into my service letter regarding the keholing.

The M&P is probably my favorite gun.

I have yet to have a single failure out of either of mine.
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