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Old January 27, 2013, 11:10 AM   #1
MTAR
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Young new beginner trying to start out but seems impossible

Hello,
I live in upstate New York (almost all my life) and will be 21 in April. I've always liked guns but figured I probably wouldn't be able to get them without spending tons of money on fees and going through hassles (I guess the state succeeded in discouraging me from my rights) but I decided, you know what I'm going to try even though I'll probably get a neutered version of the gun I want.

So I was planning on attempting to get my pistol permit in April and going for a glock 19 HOWEVER, N.Y. thinks disarming people who obey laws saves lives somehow and is trying to pass a horrible law forcing everybody who had magazines more than seven rounds to get rid of them amongst other horrible laws such as tracking ammo and informing police if you "buy too much". They also wanted to make it so you can only have two clips per gun.... anyway with how stupid my state is, I'm sure these useless laws will pass.....

So I thought oh I'll get a revolver (if I get my permit) until I can move out of this horrid state (legally, the geography of N.Y.is beautiful) but once again I'm not sure due to opposition.

Besides that fact I have to wait until April, take a class (whenever that's available) get the paper work which costs 350 bucks and get finger printed another 100, get four references and the whole process takes six to nine months if you're lucky. I'd also have to meet with a judge and talk with them about why I want to be a free citizen and take responsibility of my life for myself and not be dependent on the state (imagine that), to exercise my rights.

So I was looking at revolvers (because of the mag limit) and my heart was set on the colt python (like a fool) only to find out it's discontinued and will cost me easily 2000-3000 including N.Y.fees. So basically I can't ever have anything I want, not one thing. nothing's simple. So now I'm discouraged, disgusted, disheartened, I don't know what to even do. I don't want a seven round glock that's less than half it's capacity.

I don't mean to offend anyone but I really don't want taurus or ruger revolvers. As for s&w, the lock ruins the look and I hate the fact I have a gun that's been emasculated and ejaculated on by dictators. So for a pre lock it's going to cost a lot of money (which is why I'm not getting a python...) So my options basically suck (for me) unless I compromise on looks, or standards, or give up all my money. Hot, Damn....suggestions?
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Old January 27, 2013, 11:19 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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You have months while you jump through hoops to make up your mind.

I can tell you that there are numerous people satisfactorily shooting steel framed Smith & Wessons in spite of the lock. If a 3/16" spot offends your sense of style, get over it.

Or you can haunt the sales sites, my wheeler dealer friend likes Gun Broker best, and find a pre-lock model at no more than the price of a new one. Assuming you know what you are looking at.

Study up. A copy of the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson is a big help.
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Old January 27, 2013, 11:49 AM   #3
MTAR
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Yeah, I've been researching as much as I can to find out as much as I can. Not just reading about guns but also proper handling etc. I know there's only so much you can learn without hands on experience at some point...

But I'm pretty sure I want a double action revolver, I also like the fact that s&w offers a seven shot..
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Old January 27, 2013, 01:53 PM   #4
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Hhmmm....OP, the TX Attorney General has indicated that all freedom-loving New Yorkers are welcome in Texas, with their guns.

Just remember though...if you come, you're coming to a free state that was once a sovereign nation.--Patrice
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Old January 27, 2013, 01:55 PM   #5
SgtLumpy
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May I suggest...

Focus on the gun and what you want. The gun doesn't care about all that other stuff.


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Old January 27, 2013, 02:55 PM   #6
Wheel-Gunner
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I would just like to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a Ruger GP100. You are selling yourself short to dismiss such a firearm so quickly.
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Old January 27, 2013, 03:30 PM   #7
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I was in your position, about 40 years ago....

Except for the fact that my father owned several handguns, and was an NRA certified instructor....

Quote:
take a class (whenever that's available) get the paper work which costs 350 bucks and get finger printed another 100, get four references and the whole process takes six to nine months if you're lucky. I'd also have to meet with a judge and talk with them about why I want to be a free citizen and take responsibility of my life for myself and not be dependent on the state (imagine that), to exercise my rights.
The fingerprinting, 3 references, 4 photographs, investigation, and final review by a judge was the process back then. They instituted the requirement for a safety class just before I left to go in the service, and I helped my father give a couple. Cost wasn't anything near what it is today, even allowing for inflation. And it only took about a month, two at the outside.

One thing I would recommend is some study on the judge who will be approving (or not) your application. Back in my day, we didn't have to meet or talk with the judge, they just got the paperwork when it was ready, and based their decision on it. If you go infront of the wrong judge, and breath even one word about how you want to be a "free citizen...etc.." I can guarantee you will be denied.

And this was true, even back in my day. The judge in Saratoga country would only approve for "hunting and sporting purposes.." If you put "self protection" on the application, he would deny it. A judge in Albany county would deny everything that had anything but "self protection" listed as the reason for wanting a handgun permit.

Find out just who you will be dealing with, and what their personal quirks are. Otherwise you are going to be wasting a lot of time and money, only to find that under NY law, it is entirely up to the whim of the judge, and if there is anything in your application (or your interview - including your personal appearance on that day) that gives the judge the feeling you might be less than absolutely perfect, no pistols in NY for you.

A single speeding ticket can be enough reason for refusal. OR possibly a bad report in your credit history? The didn't use to check credit history, but now days, who knows? Basically anything, no matter how minor, that shows you might have a disregard for authority (like speeding) or a lack of responsibility (not paying bills on time) could be their excuse as to your "lack of good character", and of course, no one wants someone of poor character to be licensed to have a pistol.....

Basically you have to convince them that you are a good, upstanding citizen, responsible, who never gets in any trouble, and follows the law because you want to, not because you have to. And, at 21, that is a tough task. Good Luck.

BTW, I grew up in NY, in the Saratoga/Glens Falls area, spent lots of time in the Adirondaks. Love the country (although the winters are a bit tough), but the people today drive me nuts. When I was 15, there were 4 gun shops within bicycle diatance of my home. On my last visit (about 10 years ago), the closest one was nearly 80 miles away, and it was an upscale venture catering to the high end collector!

I got my permit at age 18. The law then left the age limit up to the judge's discretion. In my case (and my brother's when he turned 18), we applied, and were approved. The judge knew our family, and so did all the local LEOs. Mother was Town Clerk for a decade, Dad gave Hunter Safety classes, etc...

We applied and got ours because of an auto accident in the late 60s. Mom and Dad were slightly hurt, and recovered, but it got us thinking. At the time, Dad was the only one with a permit. At the time, he had 6 handguns, quite a lot, all things considered. But if something had happened to Dad, those guns would have had to have been surrendered to the state, because no one else in the household was licensed to have them.

If we turned them into the sherriff, and applied for a permit, they would be held until the permit was approved or denied. If we turned them in to the State Police, they would have been held for a period of time (90 days IIRC) and then destroyed!

So, to protect our family's investment, Mom got her permit right away, and each of us kids got ours as we became old enough to have a reasonable chance of being approved.

I cannot recommend strongly enough that when you are able to move, that you move out of NY. Find some place where sanity still has some effect. Go back to visit when you want, but don't even think of trying to take a gun, if you do!

In my state, with a Concealed Pistol License (which costs $60, one set of fingerprints, and takes about 2-3 weeks to obtain in my county), you can go into a shop, pick out the one you like, fill out the Fed form, pass the instant check phone call, pay them, and walk out with it. If you don't have a CPL, same thing, except you come back in 5 days and pick it up. There is no permit required to own, only to carry concealed.

There is still a lot of the nation where that is the general rule. GO there, when you can. Life will be better there, I promise. (another plus, most of the rest of the country doesn't tax you as heavily as NY does!)

Good Luck, and by all means, get your NY permit, if you can. Also, be aware that they take their permit seriously. 25 years after I left NY, they sent me a letter, noting that since I was no longer a state resident, my permit was no longer valid. and they wanted it back!

And yes, I am talking about the little wallet size, non-laminated, paper (not cardstock like the driver's license at the time). AND, they wanted to know what happened to the pistols listed on the permit!!!! Seriously, they did ask for just that! My reply would not pass our forum's language filters, so you can only imagine what it was....
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Old January 27, 2013, 05:00 PM   #8
MTAR
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From what I can gather.... there are two judges in my county. One that only allows target shooting and I've that gives unrestricted license (ccw). And there's no way of knowing which one you will get. ...

I actually have a clean record I haven't had any involvement with police and such... But yeah since I'm 21 is imagine they figure I'm inept of owning a firearm.

Thanks for all the feedback guys

Although I'm not sure what you meant by the gun isn't worried about what I want?

Also chances are once(if) I get my pistol I probably went be getting another for a little while... which is why I want to make sure I get something I really like. I could get a ruger over day but I have to figure outt what's going on. I heard one guy over here could only have five pistols on his permit and that was it
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Old January 27, 2013, 06:41 PM   #9
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I can barely address the problem of your living in occupied territory. I feel bad for you and I'm disgusted with the politics of many parts of this great land, but that's a problem well out of my comfort zone. I can only suggest that at your current age, now may be the time to take a look at the things in your life. You may have a wonderful opportunity to see what your attachments are and address your residency problems right now. I can tell you with absolute experience that job/career, family and obligations that you may have later in life can/will make a cross-country move outrageously more difficult.

If I were 20 years old and living in New York, I'd make every attempt to re-direct my life elsewhere. At 40 years old with a job and children and such, doing something like that is much more difficult. You'll often see folks (in gun forums) say "Man, you gotta move!" like it's an easy option for anyone on a free weekend. It is not. So if you can, do it now.

If you've never handled revolvers before... we wouldn't expect you to know a lot about them. However -- you are now in the midst of a LOT of folks who have a LOT of experience with them.

To discount a Ruger GP-100 without experience would be pure ignorance, IMO. Also, you seem to write off the (literally) millions of pre-lock Smith & Wesson revolvers in existence. And though I'm not a Colt revolver guy, there are also options for Colt revolvers that might make you very happy without the extreme expense of the quite collectible Python.

In the opinion of this revolver lover...You have a lot more options than the doom & gloom in your post might suggest when it comes to picking a revolver... even on a budget, and living in New York State.
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Old January 27, 2013, 08:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
In the opinion of this revolver lover...You have a lot more options than the doom & gloom in your post might suggest when it comes to picking a revolver... even on a budget, and living in New York State.
scheez - I gotta agree with Sevens. The best revolver shooters in the world don't give a rat's patootie about The Lock, MIM parts or having a Python. And they don't listen to cackling hens on gun forums whining about how bad this or that revolver is. They just shoot. You can find excuses, or you can just shoot - it's really only up to you.
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Old January 27, 2013, 10:12 PM   #11
Dragline45
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How about a 1911, they come standard with 7 round mags which makes it fine with NY's new bill.

Quote:
But yeah since I'm 21 is imagine they figure I'm inept of owning a firearm.
I live in Massachusetts which is almost as strict as NY when it comes to gun laws. At 21 I was given a Class A unrestricted license with no problems, meaning I could carry concealed and posses pre-ban large capacity magazines. It really depends on the area of the state you live in and how lenient they are with licensing.

Quote:
Hhmmm....OP, the TX Attorney General has indicated that all freedom-loving New Yorkers are welcome in Texas, with their guns.
On that note, I actually am thinking about moving down that way in the next few years, especially since Massachusetts is turning into a damn communist state.

Last edited by Dragline45; January 27, 2013 at 10:19 PM.
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Old January 27, 2013, 10:24 PM   #12
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I can hardly comprehend the frustration you are feeling. I was able to walk into the local gun shop and walk out with the revolver I wanted. Nothing more than the standard paperwork. Concealed carry cost a total of $80 and from what I understand is a very quick process, but I do not have to have a concealed carry permit to own the gun or shoot it on my property.

Do you own any long guns? Might be fun to get yourself a .22LR and kill some time with it.

As for feeling so constrained with choice in revolvers, I am confident that you will be able to find an older S&W without a lock.

Good luck with new york, Its a different world here in Georgia. Haven't heard one mention of further gun control from our state government, for which I am thankful. Best of luck for your situation though, I would try to get out of there to somewhere that respects your 2nd amendment rights.
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Old January 27, 2013, 10:43 PM   #13
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I wonder what would happen if a state law required all that to exercise the right to vote?

But all I can advise is to try to take the chip off your shoulder. When dealing with police, judges, or raving lunatics (or combinations) smile, humor them and go along with what they seem to want you to say. If a judge wants you to say you are going to hunt with a .25 auto, tell him you are going to hunt with it - chances are he wouldn't know a hunting gun from a bull moose.

Hard to swallow, but it seems lately that we have more and more fanatics and petty dictators in hign places and we just hope enough people wake up to vote them out before they decide to stop having elections and declare themselves in office for life.

Jim
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:53 AM   #14
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I didn't realize it was that bad.
I'd be thinking of packing a suitcase. Like others have stated now would be the best time. Hitch up your wagon and head out west, but don't go too far.... Similar infringement are unraveling at the other end. Here in Montana you can still walk into the nearest pawn, sporting goods, gun store, etc., and two minutes later.... walk out with your firearm. The local newspapers are filled with private sales that are usually settled with a handshake (my favorite ).

Moving is not an easy endeavor so going through the hoops might be what you have to do. Believe me when I say, that the appreciation and joy of your right to bear arms will taste much sweeter when you have experienced it first hand. So sweet that you will probably be as broke as me .

You are young and you sound like a good kid (my age showing), and it really hurts to hear how much trouble someone like yourself has to endure to enjoy such a wonderful part of our heritage.
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:30 AM   #15
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I feel for your struggles in that state.

If I were you, I would look at a 3"(or 4") S&W 13/19/65/66. They can be found pre-lock every day on Gunbroker for ~$500 or so. These are very high quality 38/357 revolvers. They are a K frame which is a good balance or shootability and holster carry comfort.

Personally, I would like to see a 13 3" in my stable with a parkerized or cerakote finish!
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Personally, I would like to see a 13 3" in my stable with a parkerized or cerakote finish!
Probably my favorite revolver that I don't own. Super hard to find in the 3" FBI configuration, and when you do they are way overpriced. But I could never bring myself to parkerize or cerakote a gun like that.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:12 AM   #17
bubbacrabb
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I can not believe there are places you have to have a license just to own the gun, that blows my mind. I thought you just needed it to carry it in them states like everywhere else. That said, I hear Vermont is really gun friendly and its close for you. The NRA book I have gives them an A for gun rights. I think there are a lot of options you could go to and be a lot happier. I've lived in Indiana, Arizona, and now the hippie state of Oregon, which isnt to bad, but in a few weeks I go back to the Hoosier state. Luckily I'm covered under LEOSA so I am allowed to carry in all 50 states. Good luck youngster. Hope you get a permit and dont worry about that stupid lock. Just forget its there.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:12 AM   #18
PetahW
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Sevens has iven you excellent advice - it's best to cut the apron string & move out of NYS, before cutting your teeth (and wallet) on the NYS handgun law's Gordian Knot.

The longer one waits, the harder it is, due to obligations adding up over the years.

I broke out of NYS when I was 17, first to NJ, but then soon to New England, after an exotic S.E. Asian vacation (courtesy of my uncle, Sam ).


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Old January 28, 2013, 12:33 PM   #19
Wheel-Gunner
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Quote:
I can barely address the problem of your living in occupied territory. I feel bad for you and I'm disgusted with the politics of many parts of this great land, but that's a problem well out of my comfort zone. I can only suggest that at your current age, now may be the time to take a look at the things in your life. You may have a wonderful opportunity to see what your attachments are and address your residency problems right now. I can tell you with absolute experience that job/career, family and obligations that you may have later in life can/will make a cross-country move outrageously more difficult.

If I were 20 years old and living in New York, I'd make every attempt to re-direct my life elsewhere. At 40 years old with a job and children and such, doing something like that is much more difficult. You'll often see folks (in gun forums) say "Man, you gotta move!" like it's an easy option for anyone on a free weekend. It is not. So if you can, do it now.

If you've never handled revolvers before... we wouldn't expect you to know a lot about them. However -- you are now in the midst of a LOT of folks who have a LOT of experience with them.

To discount a Ruger GP-100 without experience would be pure ignorance, IMO. Also, you seem to write off the (literally) millions of pre-lock Smith & Wesson revolvers in existence. And though I'm not a Colt revolver guy, there are also options for Colt revolvers that might make you very happy without the extreme expense of the quite collectible Python.

In the opinion of this revolver lover...You have a lot more options than the doom & gloom in your post might suggest when it comes to picking a revolver... even on a budget, and living in New York State.
To the original poster: I think you'd better read this response at least twice!!
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:57 PM   #20
MTAR
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Thanks you guys are great, and yes I think you're right about my ignorance, I hardly know anything, but I am willing to learn... I can't move it just yet because... can't really afford it at the moment and I'm going to have to find a way to get a job there etc. It doesn't seem simple lol.

Anyway, yeah I'm probably going to have to get a post lock shooter, and maybe I'll get a rifle (I don't have any guns yet) I considered building an ar 15s by following a guide.... But in N.Y.? Dunno how that's gonna work out. You also have to renew pistol permits every five years, Orr at least that's what's trying to get passed.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:23 PM   #21
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You don't even have to move that far, man. Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia and Ohio all have much better gun laws.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:37 PM   #22
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You might look at the Smith and Wesson Performance Center revolvers.
They are IMHO the best made revolvers today.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...6_757896_image
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:23 PM   #23
PetahW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAR

I can't move it just yet because... can't really afford it at the moment and I'm going to have to find a way to get a job there etc. It doesn't seem simple lol.
FWIW, folks that actually do something, find a way to do it - others only keep finding excuses why they can't.

Drive or take a bus, whatever, to the nearest border state (PA, VT, or CT - forget NJ), however many times it takes and find a job first, then move.


.
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:10 PM   #24
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While your pondering your guns and moving etc., do yourself a favor and check out the Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag. with a 4" barrel. That is one sweet little shootin iron.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:41 PM   #25
Revolver1
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Stop whining kid! I'm a NYer too. You make it sound like you're settling for a revolver. A 357mag is the King Manstopper! If I could only keep one gun, it would be my Python, or SW 27. As for Python prices, Zack's in Ballston Spa had two 4" Pythons for $1200 each. These foolish laws will be repealed eventually, they're unconstitutional. In the meantime get your permit and save your money. You're gonna' need cash for revolvers, one won't be enough!
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