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Old February 14, 2013, 07:28 PM   #1
Southwest1
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Rimfire guns will one day become more expensive than centerfire guns.

I really believe this to be true. Imagine going to your LGS or Wally World and seeing the 22LR weapons twice the price of everything else under the glass.

Look what happened to the price of large SUVs when gas prices climbed close to 5 dollars per gallon. They dropped like a rock. On the flip side, you could not get a Toyota Prius, and if you were fortunate enough to find one, the price was well over sticker.

This analogy is applicable to ammo. If you can't afford the ammo, the gun is worthless.

After the first run of ammo four years ago, the gun manufacturers cranked out version after version of tactical 22s. As more women and young people learn to enjoy the shooting sports, the demand for 22s increases even more.

I owned a couple of Mosins and a PSL to take advantage of the 7.62 x 54R cheap surplus ammo. So I get that argument. The truth is that there is not an unlimited amount of that ammo. Once it is gone, the only alternative is expensive domestic product.

It all comes back to availability and cost of ammo. Every enthusiast should own a few 22s, down the road they might be the most expensive guns in the safe.

Last edited by Southwest1; February 15, 2013 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Shotgun Post moved... New Post Inserted
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Old February 14, 2013, 09:54 PM   #2
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You may get more answers posting this in the Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum, which would be the correct place for a shotgun question, I believe.

I don't know what happened with my computer, but the post I answered to, was about 20ga plugs used in a 12ga Mossberg 500. I've noticed a few posts lately that seem to have been edited and deleted because they were to the wrong thread. I'm I crazy, or is it possible there has been some corruption to the forum?

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Old February 15, 2013, 01:19 AM   #3
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/blank stare

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Old February 15, 2013, 02:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Fire_Moose View Post
/blank stare

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Old February 15, 2013, 03:03 AM   #5
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:14 AM   #6
phil mcwilliam
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Southwest1, the only problem with what you believe to be true is that rimfire rifles are cheaper to produce than centerfire rifles. To simplify things for you, rifles that make a big bang must be made bigger & stronger than rifles that make a small bang.
That said, I do own a Sako .17hmr which does sell for considerably more than some budget centerfires, but the cost of ammunition had little to do with my decision to purchase this rimfire.
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:37 AM   #7
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I hear you..

My favorite rifle is my .308, I understand how guns work and love to take them apart and work on them.

My point isn't about the cost to make the gun. It is about market conditions. For the average new shooter it comes down to can they afford and/or find ammo. It is the cost of ammo that will dictate the price of the guns in the future, not the cost to manufacture them. I hope I am wrong.
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Old February 15, 2013, 12:00 PM   #8
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maybe some day in the really realy distant future... but I think there are enough handloaders that have been buying lifetime supplys of reloading components, the the 22 theory won't hold up...

& what's to say "they" won't screw with 22 ammo in the distant future ??? can't hardly buy it now, & it's not reloadable...

not that I don't like a good 22 rifle, but I'll keep my centerfires thanks
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Old February 15, 2013, 05:16 PM   #9
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You gotta love these conjectures that come out of nowhere.
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:15 PM   #10
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My point isn't about the cost to make the gun. It is about market conditions.
The first firearm many, many people shoot is a 22lr. You might say it's the gateway gun into a life long hobby of hunting and/or shooting. Gun manufacturers know this, and they probably know that if they make .22s too expensive for the average joe, that joe may not go on to buy centerfire rifles, shotguns, or handguns down the road.

So from a marketing standpoint, I think manufacturers such as Ruger, Marlin, Remington, Savage, and Mossberg would be hurting themselves if they jacked rimfire prices up too much.
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:22 PM   #11
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Well, first you have to ask why rimfire firearms are so inexpensive now. A few reasons: low pressure means high strength forgings and high-strength barrels and high-precision high-strength components are unnecessary, low pressure and low graving forces of lead bullets mean threading barrels into receivers is unnecessary, soft lead bullets or thin copper jackets make more expensive barrel steels unnecessary, short action length makes large forgings for actions unnecessary, low to medium accuracy expectations mean close tolerance barrels and rigid barreled action assemblies are unnecessary, low cost stocks and short-range scopes add to the low sticker price. Shall I keep going? All of the things that add cost to manufacturing can be minimized, and the cheaper items are all that is needed, so the cost is low. None of those will change, so the cost will remain low compared to centerfire rifles. Now, will centerfire rifles become expensive? You bet, but no more than the market will allow, or people will not buy them. We live in a free market economy, after all. Even in the former Soviet Union, firearms were relatively expensive but the market demanded them so they were available.
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:46 PM   #12
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All guns, whether it be assault rifles, or .22lr revolvers, will only get as expensive as the buyers are willing to pay. You cant make money if you price your products out of reach of your consumer. The firearms business is a very competitive market, and the mission of staying ahead of the other guy in sales will help to keep prices from getting too crazy. However I do believe gun prices will continue a steady climb for awhile, especially with the recent "panic"

But I personally dont see rimfires surpassing centerfires
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:43 AM   #13
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Southwest1:
If this possibility becomes reality, then maybe even the nicer Enfield #4 rifles in the future could drop to the equivalent of $150-200 in today's dollars?
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:39 AM   #14
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I don't see .22LRs getting all that expensive and the temporary shortage of ammo isn't an industry-caused problem; it's a hoarding problem. There's more than enough ammo for people to use, but not enough in the short-run to allow each of us to buy a truckload when we only need a couple of bricks.

Unfortunately, ammo and gun manufacturers and dealers will take advantage of our hoarding and gun-buying excesses to raise prices excessively, especially on used guns. We're our own worst enemy, but it's not just us, it's all the people who decided it's time to arm themselves against the government's future regulations. That's life.

We didn't cause this, it was those horrible mass shooters, but we're "paying" for their sins as well.
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:45 AM   #15
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Rimfire ammo has been less expnsive by a large margin than centerfire for over 100 years. It hasn't effected the value of rimfire guns vs centerfire in the past and I don't expect it will in the future.
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:02 AM   #16
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Very interesting topic, my personal take on this would be an old pre MkII very nice 77 Ruger 6mm vs an early production 77/22. Looks like the 77/22 right now is worth more than the old 6mm. I did tell my son a while back that we were gonna be shooting 22's allot more these day's! Also how about a 39 Marlin vs a 336, or a 586 S&W vs a 17 S&W. If the materials used are similar the price can be very close, premium 22's have alway's been expensive, probably more to demand.

Last edited by Guv; February 16, 2013 at 08:13 AM.
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:27 AM   #17
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:16 AM   #18
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^^ Code????
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:27 AM   #19
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Guv- I happen to have a nice older Ruger m77 in 6mm and it is worth alot more to me than any 77/22 I've ever seen. I can still go out and buy a 77/22 or hundreds of other models of .22 rifles. A 6mm on the other hand, unless its a custom built rifle, is no longer made at all by anyone as far as I know. If the price falls off on 6mm rifles I will buy them by the truckload. But that wont happen. The 6mm rem caliber is too sought after by hunters who know what they are, and reloaders, to ever fade away. One thing that has been forgotten in this thread, what will people hunt with??? Outside of short range varmint hunting, a .22lr is pretty much useless as a hunting round. "Deer caliber" rifles will always sell well, and so will varmint and large game calibers. As long as there are critters running around in the wilderness, people will hunt them. And they wont be using .22s.
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:44 AM   #20
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Check some prices, I only said 6mm because I have one, pick another caliber.
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Old February 16, 2013, 10:03 AM   #21
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Maybe the South Texas and Northwest North Carolina markets are a little different. Around here, if you had 2 identical rifles for sale, one in .243 and one in 6mm, you would be able to get about $100 more for the 6mm, simply because of the non-availability of a new 6mm. Also alot of people know the 6mm is ballistically superior. I realize the .243 ammo is a little more common but there's no shortage of 6mm ammo either. Its easy to find brass to reload since 7x57 or .257 roberts brass can be re-sized to work. I know several people in my neck of the woods that deer hunt exclusively with a 6mm rem. There are always want ads in the classifieds with people wanting to buy a 6mm rem rifle. I own two myself, the M77 as you mentioned and an older Remington 700 varmint. If they are so cheap in south Texas I need to make a trip down there and buy up some 6mm rifles to re-sale up here. Wanna sell yours?

What other caliber would you like me to pick? They would all be more useful for hunting than a .22lr
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Old February 16, 2013, 11:25 AM   #22
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Well SW believe what you want although it's not based in any sort of reality or economics. Then again, some folk thought Barry would be a good president. Takes all kinds.
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Old February 16, 2013, 11:30 AM   #23
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Sorry I guess I wasn't too clear, I meant just as a comparison. When I bought the 77/22 about 15 years ago I paid 375.00. Around that same time frame I bought a M70 .270 XTR for about 475.00. On Gunbroaker there are several 77/22's for about the same price as similar M70's to the one I have There is no way I would sell my M70 for less than the 77/22 but I'm not selling or buying................Right Now!
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Old February 16, 2013, 11:48 AM   #24
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I agree. The best thing for gun owners with any sense to do is wait this mess out if you want something that's currently in high demand. I see people selling bolt guns, single shots, shotguns, and whatever else for half what they're worth to get some quick cash to finance an AR purchase for 3 times what it was worth 6 months ago. Stupidity! Ill keep what I've got even if its worth nothing before I'll sell it for a loss. I personally have no desire to own an AR or anything of the like anyway. I do however love my .22lr's and hope I can readily find ammo for them by the time my remaining stock of 2000+ rounds I bought over a year ago is gone.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:16 PM   #25
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Well Steve, that little 6mm was one of my pops pride and joy's. That gun never went out in the rain although he did take his share of deer with it. A while back I had it floated and bedded and really woke it up, it is a very nice little cartridge. And yea I'm waiting to see what kind of nice blued/walnut huntin rifles got traded for AR's that people had to have, there's gonna be a bunch to pick from. 35Whelen 700 BDL
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