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Old February 16, 2013, 11:10 PM   #1
MDS
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45-70 questions

I will sometime in the future start loading 45-70. Someone told me that the Hornady lever revolution brass can't be reloaded. Because of length? Any experience with this?
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Old February 17, 2013, 06:39 AM   #2
ruger357w
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Hornady does make there leverlution brass a little shorter. I have some for my 45-70 but have not reloaded it yet, but I will. I have reloaded it for my 44 magnum with out any problems.
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Old February 17, 2013, 08:59 AM   #3
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If they sell the bullets for reloading they can be reloaded. Check the Hornaday manaul for possible precautions.
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Old February 17, 2013, 09:10 AM   #4
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The Hornady brass is about .060" shorter than SAAMI Spec, the problem is crimping the cartridge. Redding sells a profile crimp die that is made for the shorter Hornady brass, or just have a machine shop shorten your seating/crimp die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/792...government-ftx
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Old February 17, 2013, 09:36 AM   #5
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Just buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die and the problem of crimping is solved.
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Old February 17, 2013, 11:21 AM   #6
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The brass for Hornad brass is reloadable. You just have to set the expander, and crimping of your seating/crimp die lower is all. I have some that I reload. I just have to change my die settings is all. It works just fine.
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Old February 17, 2013, 11:27 AM   #7
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If you plan on using a cast bullet then you can simply remove the decapper from your sizing die and run the loaded round part way in. This may not provide enough neck tension to avoid setback in a lever gun, but works well in a single shot rifle.
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Old February 17, 2013, 12:29 PM   #8
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If you don't already have Hornady brass just stay away from it. You don't want to be sorting brass by length and going to extrordinary measures to load for a non-standard case. Hornady did not do themselves or the shooting community at large any favors by making short brass. I think the idea was to get you to use their Leverevolution bullets. SAMMI specs aid the shooting community by setting standards for cartridges. Deviating from the standard causes problems. Personally, I won't use it.
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Old February 17, 2013, 12:31 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the info. A lot of good stuff.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:21 PM   #10
Ralph Allen
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I too bought a few boxes of the Leverevolution 45-70 to shoot. I keep the brass seperate from all others and when I reload it I hand crimp it. I exclusively use cast bullets in my 45-70. Have never tried a Lee factory crimp, but if that works, so be it. My main issue is that I keep Hornady brass seperate from the others.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:25 PM   #11
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Yeah, I'm too lazy to change my dies all the time.
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Old February 17, 2013, 06:13 PM   #12
m&p45acp10+1
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You would still have to adjust the Lee Factory Crimp die for the shorter case,
Thouhg that is as simple as turning the die down a little more till you feel the case mouth, then adjusting the crimp. I use Hornady New Dimension dies. I adjust the expader to go lower down so that it will expand the case mouth enough. Then I adjust my seating die lower to seat, and crimp the shorter brass.

Note I keep a dummy round for them so that it makes die readjustment go quick. Takes less than a minute to adjust the flaring die, about 30 seconds for the seaing, and crimp.
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Old February 17, 2013, 06:15 PM   #13
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After you purchase your reloading gear

Make it easy on yourself and your pocket. Buy Starline cases. Get some Missouri Bullets 405gr. Get some RL7 or some 4198 and some LR Primers. You're ready.
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Old February 17, 2013, 07:02 PM   #14
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Main consideration with the FTX family of cartridges is case volume is a few grains less than with standard length cases and bullets. Best way is to get some FTX bullets and load with Hornady's FTX specific data, and do work up from min load.
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Old February 18, 2013, 10:16 AM   #15
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Don't know about the Hornady brass, haven't used any.

The one most important thing about reloading for the .45-70 is knowing which class of rifle you are loading for.

There are three, usually referred to as Group I, II, & III. The rifle's strength, as judged by the loads it can safely shoot decides which group the rifle goes in.

This system was developed, informally, by shooters and reloaders back in the 60s, when interest in the .45-70 round picked up again as it approached its centennial anniversary.

GROUP I
The original Trap Door Springfield rifles, and any modern copies. Also any break action guns like the H&R Trapper, and T/C Contender and any gun you are not positive which group it ought to be in.

Loads for these guns should be the blackpowder equivalent. The standard 405gr factory ammo, and reloads in the same pressure ranges.

GROUP II
The original Marlin 1895 and Winchester 1886 class rifles. And their modern reproductions. These guns will take top loads that are unsafe in Group I rifles.

GROUP III
Modern single shots, like the Ruger No.1 & No.3, and bolt actions, such as converted Siamese Mausers. Top max loads in these guns are dangerously unsafe (blow up) in Group I rifles, and too hot for Group II, as well.

Most reloading manuals will have separate sections for the data, but not all call them Group I,II,III...

If you have more than one .45-70, and they are in different groups, it is critical that you keep your top loads for each completely separate!!!!!

Some people use colored markers to paint the case heads, some people use nickled brass cases for one gun and only brass for the other, etc. No matter how you do it, ensure you do it well. Making a mistake and putting a Group III level load in a Group I gun will damage it, and maybe you!
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Old February 18, 2013, 11:36 AM   #16
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And they really should have 4 groups as the Sharps falls between Trapdoor pressures and lever gun at 29,200 cup.
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Old February 18, 2013, 11:54 AM   #17
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Probably ought to be a category for the Sharps, but putting them in Group I harms nothing. Sharps owners may be able to shoot slightly hotter loads than Trap Door owners, but putting them in Group I prevents trouble.

Individual owners, knowing the actual limits of their guns, can load as they see fit. By putting Sharps rifles in Group I, owners who don't understand the limits are better protected. Assuming they understand and use the Group classification at all...
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Old February 19, 2013, 12:33 AM   #18
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In my experience, the Lee factory crimp die is at least as "length sensitive" as the regular die with the roll crimp machined in. The factory crimp die is activated by the shell holder pressing on the bottom of the die. If the case is short enough, it won't reach the crimp ring.

I think (if memory serves) that you can find a taper crimp die for it. I think that it would be the least "length sensitive" crimp die for any cartridge. Whether it will hold the bullet well enough to work through a lever gun action would need to be verified, but it ought to. It seems to work well enough on .45 auto cartridges, which get banged about quite a bit in the chambering process.
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Old February 19, 2013, 08:39 AM   #19
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even though I reload for ( among others styles ) a lever action, I resell the Leverevelution cases, rather than reload them... IMO, they are not "real" 45-70 cases if they are shorter than the standard allows... I normally sort cases by brand, so mixing them up is not an issue, but...

a) I don't want to have to readjust my dies...

b) I think it could be dangerous to be loading a max Marlin only load in regular cases, & switching the same load into the shorter Hornady cases... pressures could rise very rapidly with less internal volume...
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