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View Poll Results: What should I do?
Get the M80 FEG (€300) 3 4.11%
Get the CZ75 Compact (€300) 43 58.90%
Get the Star 28-PK (€190) 0 0%
Keep your cash and spend on stuff you need: rounds, bullets, powder etc 27 36.99%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 15, 2013, 11:08 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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What to do, what to do? Help me decide!

By opening this thread you hereby agree to only give me sensible answers and not to just spend my money by proxy!!

Unfortunately, where I live, window-shopping is free and that gets me in all sorts of trouble, so here is the conundrum:

First and foremost: I DO NOT HAVE MONEY TO BURN! In fact I could even say I don't have money to spare. Secondly I should say I do not need another pistol.
My Glock covers my competition needs and my soon-to-be-replaced snub my carry needs. Despite that I have seen 3 potential candidates, all in 9x19, all have safeties, all come with 2 mags only, all are DA/SA and all are L&G rifled.
They are all very cheap compared to the local market in 9mm pistols.

The only advantages to getting a second 9mm (apart from the fun-factor) is that I could legally keep 2000 rounds, instead of 1000, I would have a gun that would take cast bullets if ever I chose to give that a go, and finally if ever I was short of cash and had to sell the Glock, I'd still have a 9mm in my collection.


Here they are:
1: A used FEG M80 Luger HP clone for €300.
Includes a shoulder rig and a box of ammo. Not seen it yet. Will do next Thursday.

For: a fine design, accurate, reliable and comfortable if I believe the posts in my HP thread. May be able to shave €25 or so off the price.
Against: spare mags, springs etc will be next to impossible to come by.


2: A used CZ75 Compact also for €300.
Some signs of use based on the corners of the slide etc, but no idea how much. Felt very nice in the hand, got sights on target very comfortably (ie not having the same half-second of adjustment to angle my Glock down a bit)

For: Spares are easy to come by as there is a CZ stockist in town, seems to be very pointable and was comfy in the hand. Compact, could be carried
Against: None really except that it is more expensive than option 3 below and comes with fewer bits than option 1 above. Apart from that...


3: A used Star 28-PK for €190.
Comfortable, accurate (put 15 rounds through it and hit a piece of clay pigeon, spent shotgun cases etc most times at 5-7yds) and had the same pointablility of the CZ. Steel slide on an alloy frame. Ambi-safety. Adjustable rear sight. Easy to take down. Being sold by a soldier who wants a G17 before he ships back out to Afghanistan to chase Taliban. The mags have passing resembance to CZ mags, but was comparing them from memory: would need to have them side by side to see. If not there is a chance that CZ mag srpings can fit...

For: By far the cheapest on offer. shot nicely, is different, looks cool, easy to take down, ambi-safety is nice. Compact so could be carried
Against: Dry firing is bad for it (F-pin fragile), if CZ mags don't fit, mags will be nigh on impossible to locate. Same for spares such as springs etc... Alloy frame: possibly wear out faster?

So what should I do? Vote in the poll!!
(to anyone who posts "buy the lot!", may your spent casings eject irritatingly at your forehead. )
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:12 AM   #2
Grizz12
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where do you live that has a 1000rnd/gun limitation?
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:30 AM   #3
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
where do you live
"Top of the Baltic stack": Estonia!
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:44 AM   #4
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Old February 15, 2013, 02:04 PM   #5
erhodes
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I would say that if you always have a thousand rounds handy right now get the CZ and keep two thousand rounds on hand. If you don't have enough cash to regularly keep a thousand rounds on hand now then just use the money for more rounds. The glock you have is better than all three of the guns that you listed so I'd say the best part of the deal would be your increase in round count.
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Old February 15, 2013, 02:28 PM   #6
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Is there a limit to the number of snow shovels you can keep and bear out
there in Elbonia?
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
1: A used FEG M80 Luger HP clone for €300.
If I understand this correctly, this is a FEG Hi Power clone. I really like the Hi Power, they are accurate and rugged, a top military and police choice for 75 years. That said, FEG quality was spotty at best, and FN parts will not always fit. I cannot imagine that magazines would not be available for this, HP mags are virtually everywhere here. A good choice.
Quote:
2: A used CZ75 Compact also for €300.
Absolutely a great pistol. I fired a full-sized CZ75 years ago and was very positively impressed. Like the Hi Power the design was derived from, it is a very accurate and rugged design. If parts and mags are very available in your area, this is an excellent choice, and would be my recommendation of the 3.
Quote:
3: A used Star 28-PK for €190
Nothing with the Star name on it. Not that Star pistols are bad, but since parts are not available, any parts breakage could render it useless.
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:36 PM   #8
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The CZ!
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:36 PM   #9
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Let me give you my input...and it's based mostly on your disclaimer...

First of all, none of those are terribly great guns. Decent, sure, great, not so much. Second, you say you don't really have the money. I'm a big advocate of not spending money you don't have. 1000 rounds is quite a bit. Unless you're shooting a lot (like several hundred a week), or are expecting a war or zombie apocalypse, that should be plenty. If you absolutely must be able to have the 2000 rounds on hand, go with the Star, since it's the least expensive of the bunch. If you want to shoot lead bullets, you could get yourself an aftermarket cut barrel for your Glock, like a Lonewolf or something.

I'd just say save your money, by something else later rather than kind of settling now. But that's just my opinion.
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:37 PM   #10
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My vote, #2. The CZ is the most reliable, and most likely best built of the three. It is also the most widely available. Which means parts, magazines, and accessories are also easier to find.
#4 is not really an option as you stated you only have a Glock in 9MM. Don't know If it's a popular slogan in Estonia, but in America what they say about potato chips also is true of 9MM. "You can't have just one"!
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Old February 15, 2013, 04:13 PM   #11
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Gaerek, we disagree on two points.

First, the CZ75 compact is right up there with the best carry pistols. I have a couple P01 variants, myself. Quite a few shooters think the CZ family point better, and have better general ergonomics, than most of the currently popular carry guns.

Second, 1000 rounds may be a lot for some people, but it is not a lot for others.

I shoot IDPA typically twice a month. That's 200-250 rounds, without ANY practice sessions. Add one or two practice sessions per week, at 200-300 rounds per session, and call that an average of 1500 rounds a month in practice, or 1750 net rounds.

Most people don't shoot that much. I know many people who shoot at least that, and quite a few who shoot significantly more.

FWIW, the CZ P01 is my normal IDPA pistol, too, and it does well for me.

Edit: Another advantage to the CZ - Kadet conversion kits, which allow the CZ75 owner to shoot .22LR for practice if so desired.
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Old February 15, 2013, 04:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Is there a limit to the number of snow shovels you can keep and bear out
there in Elbonia?

No, there isn't.

Nor are there any limits, surcharges or paperwork for the suppressors I have.
Can you say the same?
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Old February 15, 2013, 04:40 PM   #13
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Keep the opinions coming folks: it's all good. It is true that the money not spend on the Star would go to pay for about 1000 rounds of 9mm. The cost of the CZ/FEG would cover that as well as 1000 rounds of .22, or even 85% of the VZ58!!

Having said that both of those felt very good in the hand. Very good.

I am not a bad shot with my Glock. It is my time that lets me down in IPSC, not my aim.
However, I could feel my point of aim line up much faster with the CZ and the Star.
When I shot the Star, I found myself thinking "Oh! Already lined up!!".
It is a nice feeling.

I am really torn here!! Heart and head diametrically opposed!!


I can't do anything for a week and that is a good thing: time to cool off!!
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Old February 15, 2013, 05:20 PM   #14
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
If you want to shoot lead bullets, you could get yourself an aftermarket cut barrel for your Glock, like a Lonewolf or something.
I had investigated that a while back and the import fees and taxes would be such that it would be cheaper to buy the CZ, than get a drop in barrel, so in that sense, if I ever want to cast for 9mm, then it wouldn't be with the Glock, anyway...

Regarding your point on 1000 rounds being enough.
The only reason 1000 is a relevant number is that is the quantity for which shops do bulk discounts. For example, if I buy 999 rounds, I'd pay €0.26 per round for a decent brand like Fiocchi. Buy 1000 and it drops to €0.16 per round. €0.14 for stuff like Barnaul.

Legally speaking, I have to wait till all my 9mm is gone before next going out to buy some 9mm stock at a decent price.

This can be tedious: I've been running on vapours this last month as far as 9mm is concerned. I used up the last of my 1000, and was ready to buy the next lot only to find out that the two shops I buy from with good prices were bled-dry by one company. Nothing!! So I've been having to buy more expensive rounds, piecemeal, waiting for new stock to arrive. It is annoying!! With another 9mm in the mix, I would not be restricted by what I still have in stock: Good deal comes up? I can buy it without teasing the law!

Whether or not it is so annoying that it is worth €190-300, is another question.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:40 PM   #15
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"Can you say the same?"
Now,now 00 I was only kidding.
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Old February 15, 2013, 07:54 PM   #16
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Sell the Glock, get the CZ and ammo and compete with it. I speak from experience on this. There are a few simple improvements to the CZ that make it a very viable IDPA gun.
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Old February 15, 2013, 09:08 PM   #17
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I believe I have read in one of your posts that you reload (if not, my apologies). So:

Do components count, or only loaded rounds?
Can you possess, say, 5k primers and 5k lead projectiles (and can you get them for reasonable prices)?

On our side of the pond, up until six months ago many shooters did not reload 9mm because they did not deem it cost-effective. If my recollection of the exchange rate is current, you are still getting 9mm for a good price, so it may not be beneficial from a cost standpoint...but having enough components to get you through a dry spell may be comforting. It is something a lot of US shooters wish they had done last year.

Just something to think about.
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Old February 16, 2013, 02:17 AM   #18
Pond, James Pond
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Now,now 00 I was only kidding.
Ah... OK. I didn't realise. I guess the "Elbonia" bit pushed my buttons. Sorry for being tetchy.

Quote:
There are a few simple improvements to the CZ that make it a very viable IDPA gun.
I'm guessing that a gun made better for IPDA would also suit IPSC. What improvements do you mean?

Quote:
Do components count, or only loaded rounds?
Can you possess, say, 5k primers and 5k lead projectiles (and can you get them for reasonable prices)?
There are limits on components but, until they are assembled they come under different limits, so I could have 1000 9mm, and but also 1000 small pistol primers and bullets in trays. The good thing about primers is that they can be used on various small case calibers.

However, on the economics front, you are right. It is way cheaper to buy factory than to reload. Having said that , I was thinking of just buying a Lee 9mm Die kit and spare turret...
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:49 AM   #19
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looking at your numbers it would take about 3000 rounds payback for the most expensive 2 your looking at. How long would that take. I am also an advocate of not spending money one doesn't have (except for on guns). But at the end you do get to keep the gun to show for your decision but if something comes up that forces you to sell the Glock when your 300 cash could have prevented it it was a bad decision and if your like me something bad will happen when your short cash. I would recommend you have a good cushion (size depends on lifestyle family etc) before you buy another but that is just me.


Quote:
Nor are there any limits, surcharges or paperwork for the suppressors I have.
Can you say the same?
Ouch.

This point shows how dumb gun laws are. What are they afraid of a revolution I haven't heard of any mass shootings were some one got 1000 rounds off. If you buy more guns you get to keep more ammo? Makes perfect sense.

Sorry I get a little touch about gun rights.
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:33 AM   #20
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I agree to get the CZ, sell the Glock and use that $$ (or €€ I should say?) for more ammo/reloading supplies.

But, I am biased in that I am FAR from being a Glockite. Haven't shot a 75, but you can't go wrong with a WELL MADE hammer fired steel framed gun. I've grown to really LOVE em.

On a side note: I find it interesting that no one has voted for your two other gun options. Maybe that's saying something....
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:59 AM   #21
Nathan
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What is the driving purpose for said gun? It is always hard to buy something for me, just because it is shiny and available.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #22
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
What is the driving purpose for said gun?
None really other than it is quite a bit of gun for the money, I like the guns in question (esp the CZ and Star as I have held them). Other than that the advantages an additional gun would afford me in terms of choice and ammo limits were outlined in the OP.

Quote:
I agree to get the CZ, sell the Glock and use that $$ (or €€ I should say?) for more ammo/reloading supplies.

....

On a side note: I find it interesting that no one has voted for your two other gun options. Maybe that's saying something....
I do like the CZs and it did point well for me and that is the bit that I find most enticing.

Regarding the other two. I think the FEG is falling behind for me anyway, but the Star still left quite an impression. I think if people here had shot it, then they'd be far more positive about it. It felt really nice in the hand, too.

Quote:
looking at your numbers it would take about 3000 rounds payback for the most expensive 2 your looking at.
Not sure what you mean by this. Having a sports licence means I can store 1000 rounds per firearm. Hence I can also buy 1000 per firearm. This is advantageous as prices per 1000 are much cheaper. However, having 2 guns in 9mm just means I can store or buy 2000 at a time.
The price per round however is no cheaper than the 1000 price, so there is no savings to be had buying 2000 over 1000...


Anyway folks, I have come up against a bit of an obstacle that even threatens my up-and-coming purchase of that lovely little Astra snub!
I double checked the law and I am on the cusp, storage-wise. Buy one more gun and, technically, I need a strong room!!

I am going to check that this is definitely the case or if it's something they (the police) tend to be a bit more relaxed about. If it is, then I have a number of choices, the easiest of which is to sell one gun to make room for another. Bottom line is, unless they are going to cut me some slack, then it is not looking good for another 9mm...
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Anyway folks, I have come up against a bit of an obstacle that even threatens my up-and-coming purchase of that lovely little Astra snub!
I double checked the law and I am on the cusp, storage-wise. Buy one more gun and, technically, I need a strong room!!

I am going to check that this is definitely the case or if it's something they (the police) tend to be a bit more relaxed about. If it is, then I have a number of choices, the easiest of which is to sell one gun to make room for another. Bottom line is, unless they are going to cut me some slack, then it is not looking good for another 9mm...
Move the Tx and avoid all your problems
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:13 PM   #24
idahoJoe
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I was saying the difference in price between the lots of 1000 and less. I guess I was assuming you don't let your stash completely run out before you buy.

I agree with Grizz12 move to Texas.
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:33 PM   #25
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CZ compact. Don't sell the Glock, CZ is good but not that good (I have PCR)
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