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Old February 14, 2013, 09:27 AM   #1
Vinnie Harold
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Problem with a concealed carry gun?

I have a Kahr CW9 which I use for carry. I have had it for over 4 years, and have had it out to the range 3-4 times because it hurts my hand after 30 - 40 rounds.
It is a small gun, 5.9" in long, 3.5" barrel, 4.5" high, .9" wide.

I get a tremendous recoil from firing the auto, and after many rounds my hand hurts and it become uncomfortable. Also, if I use only the pad of my trigger finger, after many rounds something (trigger) seems to stick into the bottom of my finger where it becomes very painful.

The range officer told me that this gun was not made to fire round after round at a range so what did I expect.

I would like to know if most small autos behave in a similar way, or is it something I am doing wrong, or is it the Kahr.

If it is the Kahr, can some recommend an auto of similar size that will stand up to the recoil and not pain my hand?

Thanks.

My larger autos, Glock -19, STI RangeMaster, CZ 75 Shadow, and Sig. 226 X5 tactical do not behave anything like this. That is why I "blame" the firearm
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Old February 14, 2013, 09:30 AM   #2
TunnelRat
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Quote:
My larger autos, Glock -19, STI RangeMaster, CZ 75 Shadow, and Sig. 226 X5 tactical do not behave anything like this.
But you realize a smaller firearm will result in more noticeable felt recoil than your larger ones, right?
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Old February 14, 2013, 10:26 AM   #3
southjk
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I can't speak to the Kahr but the similarly sized S&W Shield 9mm that I have doesn't behave that way at all. I shoot about 50-75 rounds at a time at the range and I've never given any thought at all to how my hand felt afterwards. In other words, no pain or discomfort at all.
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Old February 14, 2013, 10:30 AM   #4
chris in va
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Sure.

Kahr K9. Very comfortable to shoot. Same exact size in steel.

The CZ P01 is just a hair bigger and is phenominal. I use it for competition.
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Old February 14, 2013, 10:45 AM   #5
Fishbed77
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Quote:
My larger autos, Glock -19, STI RangeMaster, CZ 75 Shadow, and Sig. 226 X5 tactical do not behave anything like this. That is why I "blame" the firearm
You can't blame the firearm. You can blame physics. A CW9 is much smaller and lighter than those other pistols, but fires the same 9mm cartridge.

That said, I have a CM9, which is even smaller than a CW9, and I don't find it uncomfortable to shoot at all. The Kahrs are relatively soft-shooting, considering their small size. If you are having that much trouble, a strong grip on the pistol will help. It it's still a problem, consider one of the Hogue Handall-style grips. A lot of folks claim that they help tame felt recoil on the Kahr pistols.

http://www.kahr.com/Grips/Kahr-Hogue...ubber-Grip.asp
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Old February 14, 2013, 11:12 AM   #6
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If it's not working for you and you aren't shooting it enough to feel comfortable using it, sell it and move on to something that will suit you better- or get something else and keep it as a backup. It makes no sense to me to continue with something just because you happen to own it currently.

I have used the Hogue slip-on sleeve as well as a piece cut from an inner tube with my Kahr 9mm's- PM9 and CM9. Both helped increase comfort. That might be all it takes to help you be able to shoot it more.
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Old February 14, 2013, 11:17 AM   #7
Vinnie Harold
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TunnelRat
Yes my brain understands that, but my hand says that there must be a smaller 9mm that is built sturdier and absorb more of the recoil.
I was hoping somebody could recommend one that maybe, just maybe I could rent and try.
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Old February 14, 2013, 11:52 AM   #8
AH.74
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Call some local places and see what they have available to rent and try out. Let us know what the options are if you want.
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Old February 14, 2013, 04:18 PM   #9
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So, two recommendations if you want a small gun--choose one that's small, but not too small, and choose one that's light, but not too light. The Kahr K-series is among the finest compact carry weapons made, IMO, but, there aren't any handguns that 'absorb' recoil--you do. The mass does change the way that recoil is delivered, of course, and the less mass, the faster than thing gets moving. The design of the gun, grip angle, bore axis height, etc., will make the thing more or less comfortable for you, though--that's a fact. Kahr, however, has done an exceptional job with both, IMO.

The other option I think would be helpful is to shoot your Kahr far more frequently, but fewer rounds at a time. Shoot one magazine, then shoot something else for a while, then shoot another magazine. Repeat until you've shot 20-25 rounds total then stop. Try to do this a couple of times a week if at all possible (I know that may be impossible for many folks), even weekly should be helpful. Repetition combined with learning (your muscles learning, and you learning to get more out of your weak hand). Developing actual physical strength in the hands is something of a requirement in the tiny guns, I think, although a death-grip isn't recommended there anymore than anywhere else. But, abrasives and snow-tire surfaces aren't a substitute, either--at least not if you intend to actually shoot more than a box at a time, ever. You are going to benefit from a FATTER grip, though, and grip sleeves might really help, as suggested above. I bought fatter grips for the K40, and even though they're more slippery, they're still more comfy for me.

I really don't think I can make too big a deal about recoil tolerance and conditioning. My feeling is that these small guns are not easy to get started with, for anyone. I had to change quite a bit of what is 'normal' for me with my M&Ps, and in fact my first box of ammo thru the K40 bloodied my left hand thumb--it was basically sliding right off the front edge of the trigger guard or maybe even the frame, not sure which. I'd say it was 500 rds easy before I 'got to know' the gun and its unique handling. To a good degree, it seems to me your body (hands especially, but wrists, forearms & shoulders) develop with shooting and so does recoil tolerance. I could be full of horse hockey--but that's my impression.

The Kahr is an extraordinary handgun, IMO. If you can find a K9 to shoot, you may find the extra 7-8 onces makes a difference for you. But, I think you should try shooting more frequent, small exercises with what you have, if possible. You have to stop before it's uncomfortable, but start often.
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Last edited by Bongo Boy; February 14, 2013 at 06:48 PM.
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Old February 14, 2013, 05:21 PM   #10
Fishbed77
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Quote:
my hand says that there must be a smaller 9mm that is built sturdier and absorb more of the recoil.
Good luck with that! Physics is not on your side.

The MK9 is Kahr's all-steel 9mm that is smaller and heavier than the CW9. However, in my experience, the felt recoil is practically identical to the polymer-framed CM9.
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Old February 14, 2013, 05:46 PM   #11
the duck of death
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Consider a Glock 27, I shoot one daily w/no discomfort. I even shoot it in IDPA matches.
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Old February 14, 2013, 06:13 PM   #12
gilfo
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Try getting a Limbsaver slip on grip for it. It willl help on recoil and maybe take some of the pain out of shooting. I have one on my Kahr CM9 and it works well.
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Old February 14, 2013, 06:34 PM   #13
k511
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+1 for the K9... i have been very happy with mine, I use it for summer ccw when i cannot carry a 1911 but my wife shoots it mostly, very successfully ill add... my particular one has eaten every kind of ammo i have fed it cheapest being winchester white box with zero problems...mine has wood grips, but their also available in rubber which would also cut down recoil...
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Old February 14, 2013, 07:52 PM   #14
Cheapshooter
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I have a KAHR CM 9. The little brother of the CW series. Also a Springfield XD40 Sub Compact. Neither of which I find objectionable to shoot. Most range sessions with either see usually between 50 and 100 rounds fired. That is also most likely along with a couple hundred rounds of various handgun, and rifle calibers.
If you are bothered that much by recoil you might consider a 32ACP, or even a 22 rimfire. Something I personally wouldn't have as much confidence in to stop a threat, but better than a rock or sharp stick.
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Old February 14, 2013, 10:06 PM   #15
orionengnr
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I have put 150 rounds through my PM9 on several occasions (combination of FMJ range and JHP carry ammo). The PM9 is smaller and lighter, and only affords a two-finger grip.

So I am having a hard time figuring out why you are having difficulty.
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Old February 14, 2013, 10:17 PM   #16
s4s4u
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I have a CW45, and one of the first things I did was to detune the stipling on the handle. It is very aggressive and felt like a cheese grater. I used some 300 grit wet/dry and took the edges off and what a difference in shooting comfort that made.
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Old February 15, 2013, 12:11 AM   #17
Lost Sheep
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Shooting glove

Wear a shooting glove with a padded palm (golf gloves might work, too or bicyclists gloves). You will have extended endurance for practice without changing any dimensions of the gun.

The woven work gloves with the rubber friction mesh on the outside also work and are cheap, but last a long time while still allowing your hand to breath. You can cut the fingers off the glove very easily.

The rubber grip sleeve in addition to the glove might even be a better option.

Thanks for asking our advice. Good luck.

Lost Sheep

p.s. My shooting buddy has the same problem with his 500 Smith. So he loads practice rounds at half the energy level for practice, has a few full-power loads just to keep his hand in. With an automatic (if you want to keep the self-loading functional) you will want to install a lighter recoil spring for most of your range shooting, but that would solve your problem. But you will probably have to load your own light-recoiling ammunition.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; February 15, 2013 at 12:15 AM. Reason: add post script
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Old February 15, 2013, 12:16 AM   #18
shootniron
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Quote:
I have had it for over 4 years, and have had it out to the range 3-4 times
You need to correct this...quickly.

A ccw should be practiced with considerably more than this.

Also, this verges on being irresponsible from a permit holder standpoint.
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Old February 15, 2013, 11:58 AM   #19
Constantine
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Quote:
I have a Kahr CW9 which I use for carry
Tried owning something smaller than a full sized handgun. Tried it with that very pistol. Shot 3 mags and sold it days after to my friend.

I can't do little guns.

Yeah, the smaller the gun the more the felt recoil will be.

All my handguns are full sized. All I carry are full sized handguns.
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Old February 16, 2013, 11:58 AM   #20
Vinnie Harold
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shootniron,

I took your comment very seriously, and you should know that while I bought it for cc, I DO NOT carry it as I am not comfortable shooting it.

I carry my Glock 19 ( I love it), but it is really too big. I live in Florida, and we do not wear much clothes to conceal the weapon. I am a big fan of oversized shirts, but the Glock is still much bulkier than the CW9.

That is why I decided to ask for help.
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Old February 16, 2013, 02:04 PM   #21
kahrguy
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vinnie I have a 100lb dughter that can run a box of ammo thru my cw9. There are several things you can do to help YOU. Nothing different about a kahr compaired to other like sized pistols. kahrs tend to be easier to shoot than some others.

Get a pair of good tight fitting gloves for shooting at the range till you tough'n up those hands. Cut the trigger finger off or buy some open finger biker gloves. Add a rubber slide on aid to the grip. Like what HOGUE sells or use a old piece of inner tube like this on my kahr tp40. I did the same to my cm9 and cw9. Free at bike shops for a used inner tube, 1.75" size.

It does take some time to tough'n up to a small light pistol. Shoot 50 rounds and go home if you most.

Short of buying a larger heavier hand gun that you already have your not going to find a soft shooting pistol that nearly as concealable. I have a glock and don;t find much difference. maybe the rubber slip on makes up the difference . No more slip slideing around in your hand . NO more grip bite.
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Old February 16, 2013, 03:52 PM   #22
2ndsojourn
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Using less expensive ammo with a lighter bullet for all your practice shooting will probably beat your hands up considerably less. UMC Yellow box comes to mind but I don't currently have any to check the bullet weight. And if you reload your own, you can load to your own preference.
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:02 PM   #23
bikerbill
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My EDC since '04 has been a PM9 ... it goes to the range with me at least once a month and I always shoot at least 50 rounds through it ... it does pack some recoil, but my hand doesn't hurt after shooting it ... I do a lot of hand and wrist-strengthening exercises while watching TV and since I started, I find I shoot far more accurately and my hand isn't sore after a day at the range ...
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:13 PM   #24
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
I carry my Glock 19 ( I love it), but it is really too big. I live in Florida, and we do not wear much clothes to conceal the weapon. I am a big fan of oversized shirts, but the Glock is still much bulkier than the CW9.

That is why I decided to ask for help.
Possibly a better solution might be found in looking for a holster/carry style for your Glock that works better for you.
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Old February 16, 2013, 07:39 PM   #25
Lama
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Recoil Issue

I had the same problem with the Bodyguard 380....1 clip and my hand was aching....I rarely shot more than 10-12 shots.

I ended up getting a Pachmayr Tactical grip.....it's really pretty thin but it made a big difference....haven't had a sore hand since....try Amazon.....
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