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Old February 26, 2013, 12:34 PM   #1
OEF-Vet
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Would you use this training if available?

We use something similar to this in the Army and the training really does have value. The cost is much lower in terms of ammunition alone and there are obvious safety advantages especially when training as a husband and wife/family team. Plus you get the benefit of scenarios that are not really practical at the local range.

I am not promoting this company in particular but their video gives a good representation of the benefits of a virtual training system combined with competent instructors.
Threat Dynamics

I was wondering if this type of training was available to the general public in your area how many of you would take advantage of it?
What would be your concerns about this type of training?
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Old February 28, 2013, 10:24 AM   #2
Alabama Shooter
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I wonder what would be the purpose of military and police training? I don't plan on taking my wife to war with me.

Pain belts giving electrical shocks? Really? I'll pass.
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Old February 28, 2013, 11:22 AM   #3
MarkDozier
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The only reason I don't go is i promised my wife the trip to Portland before I go alone. TD seems to have a good local rep. And if I ever slow down and save the money i would love to spend the weekend at TD after I buy a bunch of Kershaw knifes at the factory store.
of course up here in WA a little shock anit nothing. We say ouch and keep going. Seems like you boys down south are getting a little weak.
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Old February 28, 2013, 11:31 AM   #4
TenRing
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I would try it.

I am a believer in high quality training whether self defense or otherwise. Most concealed pistol holders won't be going into war but the war will come to them when they least expect it.

The problem with most shooting ranges is that they are not the least bit interactive and they don't provide opportunities to practice realistic self defense shooting. For example, some ranges have rules against fast draw and rapid fire. The shooting is always in a narrow lane toward nonthreatening paper targets.

Any time I can get extraordinary shooting experience, I consider it a good thing.
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Old February 28, 2013, 11:45 AM   #5
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All scenarios are designed to teach shoot/don’t shoot, rapid target acquisition and decision-making skills.

Think about it, these are good skills for anyone who chooses to carry a weapon for self defense. Not just military and law enforcement. It is a serious responsibility not to be taken lightly. If you choose to carry you have also made the decision to shoot a BG if necessary to protect yourself or others. It's not as easy to do in a real life and death situation as it is to shoot paper targets at the range.

If you ever actually have to shoot someone you will be facing heavy scrutiny and may well have to defend your very freedom. Having the skills and confidence to make the right decision quickly may be the difference between life and death, freedom or imprisonment.

The shock belts are optional and are intended to create real stress and real consequence for hesitation. Shaky fumbling hands could get you killed in a real world situation. Most of us can not honestly say we are truly prepared for a high stress shooting situation. That includes many LEOs and new military recruits.

I know this training is not for everyone, but there is no downside to being prepared to defend yourself confidently and have at least virtual experience.
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Old February 28, 2013, 12:59 PM   #6
I'vebeenduped
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Adult style video gaming. I love it! Could my wife wear BOTH shock belts?

Seriously, this is the type of training that all conceal or open carry persons should go through...
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Old February 28, 2013, 01:46 PM   #7
sfmedic
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It cracks me up when they say elite military use this system - who and what ranges?

whats the difference between this and the FATS system? I had a FATS system in my basement. Its cool for a while - then it gets old and the scenarios get predictable. PLUS it still reinforces the problem with a lot of LE departments.

It reinforces standing out in the open and not taking cover. You get used to playing john wayne and your going to get your ass handed to you. I think you would be better served learning how to shoot and move (torwards cover or an exit) if your not LE or Mil
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Old February 28, 2013, 02:10 PM   #8
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sfmedic

Quote:
It cracks me up when they say elite military use this system - who and what ranges?
I would hardly consider my MP unit elite but we just trained at the EST 2000 (a similar system designed specifically for the military) range at Ft. Indiantown Gap last month.

Quote:
whats the difference between this and the FATS system? I had a FATS system in my basement. Its cool for a while - then it gets old and the scenarios get predictable. PLUS it still reinforces the problem with a lot of LE departments.
Not a lot other than the 300 degree option. I agree this is by far not the only training you should have in your regiment.

Quote:
It reinforces standing out in the open and not taking cover. You get used to playing john wayne and your going to get your ass handed to you. I think you would be better served learning how to shoot and move (torwards cover or an exit) if your not LE or Mil
I agree 100%. As said above in no way should virtual weapons training be the only training you do. It should only be part of a good regiment. I also agree with you that eventually the 200 scenarios would be predictable but going through a few scenarios every couple of months would offer some experiences most shooters don't get at the local range.

Edited to add: Thank you sfmedic, you make some very good points and that is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for.
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Old February 28, 2013, 02:29 PM   #9
manta49
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Only if i thought that a war might break out on my way to the shops. You would be better going on a advanced driving course it would be more beneficial at keeping you alive.

If someone wants some firearms training some sensible basic training is all that's needed unless going to Afghanistan etc unless doing it for the enjoyment of shooting. For that a real range and bullets are required.

Last edited by manta49; February 28, 2013 at 02:37 PM.
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Old February 28, 2013, 02:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
It cracks me up when they say elite military use this system - who and what ranges?
I know in the Marine Corps, we use sim rounds when we do our close quarters combat training or MOUT training. They are basically paint rounds that are fired from real gun. They hurt way more than your average paintball does, but the training is good because you most definitely know when you have just been shot.
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Old March 1, 2013, 12:19 AM   #11
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Shep

The USMC has always been my bestest mostest funnest guys to train. They show up to training with a great attitude. Unlike SOOMMMEEE people in the room whos name I wont mention who show up with a diva attitude and find time to visit us little people and grace our course with their presence :-)

I just wish the whole sims thing wasnt so damn expensive.

I I go back to my point - these simulators / sims / paintball will only take you so far and should be used ONLY with a competent instructor that will not allow bad habits to creep into the training. IE standing "the line" and shooting or (my favorite bitch with the paintguns) allowing it to become a game.

again in a gunfight cover is your friend - a lot of difference between cover and concealment and paintball and sims has a tendency to blur the line - plywood is concealment and going for a sheet of plywood and reloading behind it may not be your best option.

If any of these simulators could work shooting and moving into the system i would have a higher opinion of them. On the video I didnt care for the shot of a tactical team going in bunched up looking like the charlie angels graphic.

but I dont know what the technique being taught was so ill shut up on that one.

but that does remind me of a jarhead joke - Marines are like Bananas they are yellow and die in bunches.

Stay Safe Marine
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Old March 1, 2013, 07:42 PM   #12
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Well, we know that ALL training is a compromise of some sort. But IMO, I think there's benefit to be derived from virtually any type of training. And due to the fluid nature of a fight, I've always figured the more diversity to which you can be exposed, the better.

The prices on that site seemed to be reasonable enough, so yeah. If they'd build a place like that around my area, I'd definitely be something of a regular.
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