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Old February 12, 2013, 10:54 PM   #26
Pico
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Caliber wars again

This poor old pony has been dug up for a few more poundings it seems....

9 is fine, 40 is sporty, and 45 will keep you alive. BUT....

the "Endless Caliber War Debate" is BORINGGGGGGGG. And everything has been said umpteen times.

People, can we move to debating barrel length or something else? This one is not resolvable.

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Old February 12, 2013, 11:10 PM   #27
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Model 4006, M&P40C, Shield 40....In answer to the original question, NO!!
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:32 PM   #28
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I think a pretty solid case (pun intended ) can be made that the 40 actually BLOWS, not sucks.

Of course that applies to all cartridges as they blow bullets out barrels, not suck them out. It seems to work better that way.

While I don't think the 40 is anything better than 9mm, 357 Sig or 45, I don't think its worse either. All pretty much a wash effectiveness.

At that point it really boils down to what you like and even more importantly how you shoot it (though I think we tend to shoot what we like better than what we don't like).

9mm is nice in that it allows you to not have to grab an extra clip and still have a lot of shots (or lets you recover from shooting badly and have rounds left to do something with your new found conscientiousness)

Did we need 40? No. Are hurt by it, no. If you like it, cool and good shooting.
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:33 PM   #29
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.40 doesn't suck, I just don't really have a use for one.
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:39 PM   #30
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I think a pretty solid case (pun intended ) can be made that the 40 actually BLOWS, not sucks.
Even if it is a Spaceballs reference, let's keep discussion on a grown-up level.

Besides, everyone knows it's just a 10mm short for folks too dainty to handle recoil.
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:44 PM   #31
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No, this is why LEO's use 40's.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:53 AM   #32
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I think the important thing to understand is that it's a death ray with stopping power that can bring a charging rhino to a halt, while packing enough knockdown power to shoot down an airplane, when fired from semiautomatic, military style, high capacity assault clips.


Now that I've touched all of the bases...

.40 S&W is a great round. James Yeager is possibly a very good trainer, but he is also prone to saying silly things.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:56 AM   #33
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Hahahahah 10mm short
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:02 AM   #34
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judge for yourself
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:10 AM   #35
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Absolutely not, but at the same time I am not a fan of the .40. You give up alot more than you gain when comparing to a 9mm. The .40 has a slight ballistic edge vs the 9mm, but you give up capacity, and ease and speed of followup shots.
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:33 AM   #36
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I seem to be finding .40 caliber handguns cheaper than the 9mm. I also still see .40 ammo on the shelves. They seem to be going cheap enough I'm seriously considering a full size one of some description. Is there a significant difference in kick between a Beretta 92 and a Beretta 96?
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:41 AM   #37
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The only .40 I have is a Sig P226 Elite. It is heavy enough that muzzle flip is not a problem. I can't tell a lot of difference between that gun and a P229 Elite in 9mm.

They both feel about the same. When I first started shooting .40, I was shooting a friends Glock. Can't remember the model, but it was the smaller frame size like a G30.

I did not like it. I usually take a .45 and a .40 or take a .45 and a 9mm.

I start with the .45 and then switch off to the other caliber. I like the .40 with 180 gr. bullets. It is easier for me to shoot.

I think it is easier to shoot with a heavier platform. I am about to decide to buy a 1911 style in a .40.
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Old February 13, 2013, 02:29 AM   #38
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No. They dont suck. I carry one on duty. But they have (imo) a snappier recoil than 45 and less capacity than 9mm. Given the choice I'd rather carry one of the other two. But they don't suck.

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Old February 13, 2013, 02:42 AM   #39
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I'm pretty sure if you was shot by one, they wouldn't suck.

You can knock which caliber you want, but wait till you get hit by one.
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Old February 13, 2013, 02:51 AM   #40
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I've liked the .40 in several guns. An HK USP, Sig P226 ST, Glock 20 and 29 10mms converted to .40.
I think the 10mm Glocks with KKM conversion barrels were the most accurate. They were also very reliable and of course the recoil was soft in the 10mm frames. The Sig was a very nice gun and with the stainless frame recoil was no problem. The USP was fun and flawlessly reliable, but I never got better than acceptable accuracy, maybe 4" at 25 yards.
I didn't own an XD40, but the ones I've shot are very nice pistols.

I don't understand all the negativity with the .40. I think if I was limited to FMJ's I would definitely want my pistol to be a .40. With the large flat nose, .400" diameter and relatively high velocity, I would feel well armed.

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Old February 13, 2013, 03:21 AM   #41
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I don't understand all the negativity with the .40. I think if I was limited to FMJ's I would definitely want my pistol to be a .40. With the large flat nose, .400" diameter and relatively high velocity, I would feel well armed.
If I were limited to FMJs I'd pick the .45 ACP over the 9mm and .40 S&W. Luckily, I'm not limited to FMJs.

With modern hollow points 9mm, .40, and .45 are all essentially the same when it comes to actual effectiveness on a two-legged target. So I say just go with the one you shoot the best. For me, that's usually the 9mm (but not always).
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Old February 13, 2013, 03:37 AM   #42
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It had to be a yeager thread

As soon as I read the title, I knew someone had come across one of Yeager's videos.

In all honesty, 9mm, 40 S&W, and .45 ACP are all pretty much the same when factoring in round size, capacity, etc. I prefer the 9mm, but thats just what's best for me.

James Yeager has some good points, but too many times he gets a little fanatical.

If you have watched any of his videos, you need to watch this video hosted by one of the mods at one of the other forums I'm a member on. James answers questions we have always wondered about him, such as ".40 cal Glock or 9mm 1911"
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Old February 13, 2013, 05:25 AM   #43
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Every time James Yaeger posts a video, the firearms community gets dumber. There's a reason he disables likes/comments and none of the other major YouTube gun guys do. I even respect FPSRussia more.

The guy gets under my skin in just about every way possible. Factually questionable and sometimes downright irresponsible advice mixed with a constant smug. sneering demeanor.

So yeah, I also figured you must have seen the Yaeger video.

.40 does not suck. Neither does 9mm, .45, or .357. Energetic arguments to the contrary are symptoms of too many dudes with small units owning computers. They're all effective, useful cartridges. Pick one and be happy.
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Old February 13, 2013, 05:42 AM   #44
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YES... .40s SUCK REALLY! Waste of money to get a Sissy 40 when a .45 is way more effective! Getting a .40 is like drinking non alcoholic beer. In the end it makes you fat, fills you up, costs the same a real beer and the worst part is it doesnt get you drunk at all. If you want a .40, get a 9MM and save the money because its just as effective if not more, If you wanna soend the cash tho, get a .45 which gets the job done. Unless of course, you buy a gun solely for the purpose of only ever needing it for paper and only paper.

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Old February 13, 2013, 06:01 AM   #45
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Yes, youtube is the authority on calibers.

Oddly, one of my favorite guns is a P229 chambered in 40. I think that what turns people off about 40 is the snappy recoil, which can lead to bad flinch habits and slower followups.

The P229 is heavier than most 40s (since it's an alloy, not tupperware gun) so the recoil isn't as snappy as some Blocks I've shot.

...still, there's always the granddaddy of 40, the 10mm...

Also Yeager needs to shut the hell up. That 1911 hating, Tapout shirt wearing d-bag confirms every bad stereotype about gun owners.
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:36 AM   #46
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Niantician wrote:
Quote:
No. They dont suck. I carry one on duty. But they have (imo) a snappier recoil than 45 and less capacity than 9mm. Given the choice I'd rather carry one of the other two. But they don't suck.

+1...in a nutshell.
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Old February 13, 2013, 08:16 AM   #47
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Wow, this guy just doen't get it. This is his personal opinion only. I own 9s, 40s, 357s and 45s. Each has its good points and their bad. Early on, he speaks of Glocks in .40. Well just by simple law of phyisics, yeah it does recoil more. Light weight, high pressure round. Duh. I own 3 .40S&W pistols, Sig P226, P229 and a Beretta 90-Two. Recoil has never been an issue with these firearms. The Beretta being what I believe to be the softest shooting of the three. He also says that they wear out quicker, maybe so, but with proper maintenance, they should last very long. If you can shoot it well, and I can, center of mass at about 15-20 feet with no issues, than it will perform its function. Just as will the 9mm and 45acp. Again IMHO, each has it's place, and if you can't shoot a caliber well, than either you practice, find a better pistol for that caliber if you must have it, or just leave it completely. Your choice.
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:11 AM   #48
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20+ years in law enforcement. Hundreds of autopsies attended, and have seen guys who took .45 ACP and 12 gauge slug and still fought back, both physically and with a firearm.

Stopping power is shot placement, period.

The .40 S&W is nothing more than a way for S&W to make some money out of the 10mm after the FBI walked away from it.

The .357 Sig is a copyright ripoff of the .38/.40 Clarke.

Too often, people buy certain calibers/guns hoping it will make them a better shooter.

The 'user friendly' .40 caliber offerings are pretty dismal in performance.

Just look at the November 2006 Geroge T. Deeb shooting for evidence of this...FWIW
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:39 AM   #49
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I love my Beretta 96. Reliable, accurate, and a pleasure to shoot. I would say the same for my 1911-9mm. If i had to pick for SD the 96 would be a clear winner. Hits a little harder and I think a DA pistol is superior for the job. I wouldnt want to be on the business end of either one. Accuracy advantage to the 9mm because of the pistol not the round.
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:18 AM   #50
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This thread is based on a youtube vid by James Yeager.

Yeager likes the word "suck" and uses it regularly in the titles of his videos.

Note he also has a 2 part vid titled "1911s Suck".

Note that when he begins his vids he usually references a previous vid that "was controversial", "sparked anger", "got people talking", etc.

Notice how we all came to a thread titled "Do 40s really suck?" Folks are drawn to controversy and argument the same way we look at a house on fire or a car wreck.

Notice the little pop-up ads that appear when you click on his vids. Be aware that each time his vids are watched the ads come up and he gets a small amount of money per view.

So the more you denounce something and shout irrational things from the rooftop the more attention you attract. Some folks are drawn to that. Some believe such antics are "gutsy". Like some enjoy "Shock Jocks" on the radio. Mo' attention = mo' money. Especially if you're in a job situation where it's competitive.

Some who are attracted to the antics believe Yeager could be a fun and "ballsy" instructor.

The fella is an adequate instructor who has decided on a marketing strategy for his brand. "It Sucks" = mo' money.

It's unethical because Yeager knows enough that he shouldn't believe some of what he's saying. But some believe that if you're making money that makes it ethical.

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Last edited by tipoc; February 13, 2013 at 11:23 AM.
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