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Old February 9, 2013, 05:29 AM   #1
nate45
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Mozambique with a .41 Magnum

I recently aquired an S&W Model 58. I started practicing Mozambique drills with full power 210 grain Gold Dot hand loads. I suppose body armor might save my opponent, but they'd need a full bullet resistant face sheild to keep their teeth from flying out the back of their head.

As most of the regulars here know, I'm a Grand Master with a 1911, Glocks, etc and revolvers including the SAA with full power loads, but this Model 58 is even scaring me, seriously. I got my first pistol a Colt Trooper MK III when I was 14 years old and I've practiced religiously ever since. In 1985 I went from the S&W Model 66 to the Colt 1911 as my primary side arm. NOTHING in all those years has felt as natural and speedy to me as this Model 58 does, nothing. Its like I'm channeling Bob Munden, Bill Jordan and all the rest. After 40+ years of practice I've reached a Zen like level of proficiency, its very satisfying.

Anyway, on to the tactics and training. If a + or - 1.5 second Mozambique drill with a magnum revolver, or service automatic for that matter, won't stop a dangerous threat from an individual, then I don't know what will.


I use the same holster and speed loader carrier pictured above with my Model 29-2, with my Model 58. It is worn on a river belt, or a ranger belt inside my belt loops. I use 300 grain XTPs in the Model 29-2 and recoil is snappy. Drawing and firing my Model 29-2 with the 300 grain XTP loads, has definitely helped me manage recoil when using my Model 19s and now my new Model 58.
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Old February 9, 2013, 05:51 AM   #2
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When my hand reaches the position pictured above, its almost over, because I wait for the timer signal in the hands up position.

"Go ahead and try to skin that hog leg and I'll blast you into the land of everlasting glory."-What nate is thinking when some desperado tries his patience.
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Old February 9, 2013, 10:08 AM   #3
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Nice

Nice looking set up. Hope you never have to use it!
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Old February 9, 2013, 12:32 PM   #4
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How many rounds downrange did it take to become a Grand Wizard?
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Old February 9, 2013, 12:48 PM   #5
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Dig them .41's

Have a Model 57 Mountain Gun and a 4-5/8" Blackhawk, I feel pretty efficient with both, although not a Grand Wizard by any means ( maybe a 30yr apprentice) LOL
my apologies "Grand Master"

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Old February 9, 2013, 05:35 PM   #6
nate45
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Its called Grand Master, David Duke and Senator Byrd were Grand Wizards.

I just got back from shooting, I shot it twenty four times with Gold Dots. I'm using 22 grains of H110, a magnum primer and 210 grain Gold Dot in Starline brass. It started stinging my hand after the first shot. You need a death grip on it or it really hurts. I also shot a couple dozen 230 grain Keith types loaded over 17.5 grains of 2400, they kicked like a mule too.



I just got done polishing it, it looks good for a circa 1975 gun.

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Old February 9, 2013, 10:18 PM   #7
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Old February 9, 2013, 10:56 PM   #8
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I'd figure a Mozambique drill with a .41Mag would only require one round to the chest then one to the head....
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:01 AM   #9
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Nice, I just got my Simply Rugged for my 629 PC, may be my new carry gun. Gotta love a magnum revolver. I always liked the 41.
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Old February 10, 2013, 06:31 AM   #10
nate45
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Quote:
I'd figure a Mozambique drill with a .41Mag would only require one round to the chest then one to the head....
Should work. Its what I do with my Single Action Army. Learned it from my Dad, he was a SAA master way before I was born. "One to the wishbone then one to the teeth" is how he describes it. He says the old 255 grain .45 Colt bullet makes a nice neat, round hole in teeth.


Those are 265 grain Keith Types over 18 grains of 2400, not a milk sop cowboy action load. The ones in the belt slide are 250 grain Gold Dots.


I really like the Tom Threepersons holster for speed with the SAA. You can cock it in the holster and get the first shot of in the .25 second range when you draw on your on volition. Of course its more of just a nostalgia toy today, but I can still draw and fire two shots from my Single Action Army than the average person can with a modern semi auto. It just takes practice.

Thats the secret, practice. Settle on a pistol, find reliable defense ammo, then practice, practice, practice. Practice presentations when you can't get to the range and always practice safety.


The 1911 will always be my favorite though. Nothing like drawing and shooting 7-9 times in less than two seconds and having them all hit COM.
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:07 PM   #11
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It sounds like a ten round limit won't be affecting you very much.
Need more, carry both of them, like Patton.
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Old February 10, 2013, 03:34 PM   #12
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Yep, a seven round 1911 mag, or three and a six shot .357 Magnum revolver for plan B would work for me. Don't get me wrong though, a Glock 20 would be nice in a fight, but so would an HK 21 for that matter.
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Old February 10, 2013, 07:57 PM   #13
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It was maybe Clint Smith, of Thunder Ranch, that said when he hears the word firepower, what comes to mind is a F-16.
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Old February 10, 2013, 08:21 PM   #14
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This is Tactics and Training and concerns of capacity constantly arise. The common wisdom is that 5-7 shot capacity is plenty...until it isn't.

So, I'd never fault a man who wanted to CCW a Glock 17, two spare magazines and a Glock 26 BUG, or anything else. I guess a MAC 10, UZI, etc is about the upper limit for concelability. I'll never forget when Regan got shot and the Secret Service Man produced an UZI out of seemingly thin air.

Most of us, including most LEOs will never draw on someone IRL. Our CCWs are like fire insurance, in that its only wise to have it, but we hope to never need it. Its strictly up to the individual what level of insurance is needed.
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Old February 10, 2013, 08:55 PM   #15
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I can hide that Model 58 if I want to.



I'd rather pull out a .41 Magnum than a .22 Magnum if the chips were down. Although contrary to some, the .22 Magnum is way better than nothing. I'm an auto guy though, nothing feels better than a 1911 to me, but the Glock, Hi-Power, S&W M&P and many others will work. Bottom line is, the individual has to carry what they like. If your in a LEO agency, military, etc and have to carry what you're told, you better warm up to it.



Its not really even fair when I'm carrying a handgun and thats exactly the way I like it.
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Old February 10, 2013, 10:24 PM   #16
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Have you tried that .41 with the 210gr SWC load intended for LEO use? Long ago and far away I worked in an agency where you brought your own pistol and several co-workers toted .41 revolvers. The 210gr SWC @ 1,000ish was everyone's preferred load.

That might help your split times.
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Old February 10, 2013, 10:53 PM   #17
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I used to carry the old 210 grain Winchester Police Load in a Model 57 back in the day. Problem is, its weaker than advertised. My 230 grain Keith type loads are much more potent. Also the meplat is wider and the edges sharper.

No, for my part if, I carried the .41 again and thats a big if given my afinity for semi-autos, I use the 210 grain Gold Dot, or 180 grain Barnes. Perhaps the 210 grain Nosler.



I still have some of the old 210 grain Winchester Police rounds. From the left: .41 Magnum 230 grain Keith Type, over 17.5 grains of 2400 in Starline brass, Winchester .41 Magnum 210 grain Police Load, Remington .38 Special 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point for comparisons sake.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
You need a death grip on it or it really hurts.
Just looking at the shape and size of your hands in the pictures, I can't help but think that either swapping out the magna stocks for something a bit more hand-filling or adding a Tyler T-Grip might help you shoot more comfortably. In my experience, the difference between a magnum revolver with stocks that fit my hand well and one with stocks that fit my hand poorly is night and day.

Quote:
No, for my part if, I carried the .41 again and thats a big if given my afinity for semi-autos, I use the 210 grain Gold Dot, or 180 grain Barnes. Perhaps the 210 grain Nosler.
Among .41 Magnum afficionados, the Winchester 175gr Silvertip is a very popular self-defense loading. At an advertised 1250fps for 607fpe, the thought is that it delivers a useful amount of power without excessive recoil. While the Silvertip is a dated bullet design, one of the advantages of a magnum revolver is that they don't usually need the latest and greatest bullet design to be effective.
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Old February 11, 2013, 02:20 PM   #19
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Is everyone done bragging, now?

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Old February 11, 2013, 02:57 PM   #20
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Oh please, allow me!
I'm such a wimp, I put Pachmayrs on mine. It's a real crowd pleaser.
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Old February 11, 2013, 05:25 PM   #21
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Had a gal unload one of them into the ceiling of our bar one night. Was very loud in that confined space. Had a small shootout there, dug 35 or more slugs outta the walls and ceiling that night. Bouncing was a bitch back then, couldnt carry a gun at all.
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Old February 11, 2013, 05:48 PM   #22
nate45
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Is everyone done bragging, now?
Its not bragging if you can really do it.
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Old February 11, 2013, 06:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate45
Its not bragging if you can really do it.
Do what, exactly? You never really said. "+ or - 1.5 second Mozambique drill with a magnum revolver" suggested something, so for clarity, what exactly does "+ or -" mean? What's the par timer say you can consistently do a clean Mozambique (2body/1head) in, with the rig shown? Even with competition gear and a non-magnum DA revolver, consistent 1.5 Mozambiques with is impressive, methinks.
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Old February 11, 2013, 06:48 PM   #24
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-2 seconds from five yards. I shot two head shots Sat in 1.4 seconds, it was on to separate targets placed 3 yards apart five yards away. Its really not that amazing. I can draw and shoot 7-8 times with a 1911 in -2 seconds, so three shots from a revolver in 2, not that big a deal. The first two to the A-zone happen very fast, I slow down for the head shot. I don't always hit the head A-zone, but it hits.

Sure there are times that I fumble and its closer to three seconds, but that happens. You should know how it goes all too well Mr.Borland.
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Old February 11, 2013, 07:09 PM   #25
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There, eight shots of full power .45 Auto 230 grain HP, all eight shots hit the A-zone from five yards away. I was slow on the draw with a .53. Its like the 60 ft time in drag racing. Holster was a Yaqui slide on my belt like the Model 58 is above.
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