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Old February 12, 2013, 12:30 AM   #1
ZVP
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5 guns!

In the big shootout in the Movie near the end, Josie is outside, shot in the side, and has 5 different guns in his holsters!
I have herd that
Bloody Bill wanted his troops to carry 4 revolvers, so Josie might be right historically!
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Old February 12, 2013, 05:25 AM   #2
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Confederate cavalry and guerrillas carried 4-6 revolvers.
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:15 PM   #3
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I have a tintype of a Confederate with 3 Remingtons...
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Old February 12, 2013, 02:06 PM   #4
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Confederate guerrillas carried 2 to 8 revolvers. This is George Maddox. He rode with Bill Quantrill. He is carrying four Remington new model revolvers.
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Old February 12, 2013, 03:08 PM   #5
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I only have three at present...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3 Colts.jpg (77.9 KB, 65 views)
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:43 PM   #6
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Don't want to miss the fun here. I can't find where Josey was carrying 5 on his person, only 4. Those 2 Walkers in over the coat holsters, an 1860 in his belt and his His shoulder holster pistol alternated between a:
Colt 1849 pocket model pistol (.31 cal)
Colt 1962 Pocket Navy revolver (.36 cal)
and an 1860 Army with a cut down barrel, according to those who seem to know these things. I thought it was a 1849 the whole time, Oh well.

When I saw the movie in 1976, I had no idea of the anachronism of all these different pistols. Of course now, I cringe and smile and keep watching one of the greatest westerns in history. Of course IMHO


In this shot he has 6, with 2 of them on the horn and the shoulder holster not seen.





Josey Wales is SO good, he doesn't even need front sites on his pistols.

Here's a good shot of what he carried in the movie:


Lastly, a nice shot of the 1849:

Last edited by OutlawJoseyWales; February 13, 2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:12 AM   #7
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As I recall, when I counted the shots, it was 'correct' for the pistols upon his person...

Anyone else look at it from this angle???
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:39 AM   #8
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Most of the reenacting community seems pretty much in agreement that the idea of soldiers being routinely festooned with pistols is pretty much a Hollywood creation. You see it sometimes in period staged photographs but they say that these were mostly props.

Steve
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:46 AM   #9
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Perhaps as far as soldiers, enlisted men are concerned. Yes, one or more revolvers would be an expense they most likely could not afford. As civilians, like we are for the most part, or guerrilla fighters, why not carry as many as you could afford? The fastest reload (excepting freaks of nature like Munden or Miculek) is still dropping one gun and picking up another.
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:52 AM   #10
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Imagine how much all that weighed.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:49 PM   #11
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This was going on 150 years before the Civil War.

Back in the slow-to-reload days, it was pretty common practice to carry more than one. This goes back to BlackBeard's days even. From what I've read, when he was in battle dress, he would carry three braces (pairs) of cocked-and-primed pistols strapped across his chest and more at his sides.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:51 PM   #12
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Deerslayer, not counting holsters and belts I'll bet the loaded guns would run 9-10#... Men were tougher back in Josey's day..
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:01 PM   #13
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That's a load of metal, for sure.

A Walker weighs 4-1/2#
An 1860 (not sawed off) weighs 2#-11oz.
The 1849 weighs a pound and a half.
They would add up pretty quick!

**I didn't even count the lead in em,
**and the extra for reloads, but then probably the horse would carry that.
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Last edited by Beagle333; February 13, 2013 at 01:05 PM. Reason: and that was empty weights.
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:06 PM   #14
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Heck, everyone was tougher then.
Most everything was done manually.
By comparison, we are wimps.
Of course they died much younger, too.
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
As civilians, like we are for the most part, or guerrilla fighters, why not carry as many as you could afford?
I doubt most of the guerrillas bought their revolvers.
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Old February 13, 2013, 03:41 PM   #16
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I love how folks say this and that was never done during the civil war and how photos were all 'staged' showing men 'festooned' with pistols.

There is a tintype I have seen in my Grandad's collection of a dead Confederate with at least 4 pistols on his rotting person.

Oh, wait...that just couldn't happen!!!!!
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Old February 13, 2013, 06:46 PM   #17
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I might not have been "festooned" in the first skirmish, but if I survived it and my side won that one, I sure would have been, in the second!
("festooned", that is...)
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:08 PM   #18
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Little doubt...

... in my mind affordability had little to do with it. I'm sure many pistols were pilfered from the dead. I'm sure cylinders were as well.

Birch
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Old February 14, 2013, 05:46 AM   #19
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^^^ what he said!
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Old February 14, 2013, 07:33 AM   #20
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From what I've read. There were instances where a brace or more were holstered and attached to their horses saddle itself. I guess back in the day one could never have enough firepower at hand. Just a thought here: if your going to run out of ammo in a battle situation. You'd hope to be the last one and not the first one. Am I right about that ZVP?_
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Old February 14, 2013, 11:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
I love how folks say this and that was never done during the civil war and how photos were all 'staged' showing men 'festooned' with pistols.

There is a tintype I have seen in my Grandad's collection of a dead Confederate with at least 4 pistols on his rotting person.

Oh, wait...that just couldn't happen!!!!!
I'm just telling you what knowledgeable reenactors say - pistol use was not common among enlisted men. I'm sure some soldiers were festooned with pistols, but this was not normally the case.

Also, some photographs of the dead were also staged. Like the famous photo of the dead guy in the rocks at Devil's Den.

Steve
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:01 PM   #22
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That's 24 (count them) dry fires before Josey puts Capt. Terrill to the sword...
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
I'm just telling you what knowledgeable reenactors say - pistol use was not common among enlisted men.
Not really talking about "enlisted men". Jose was a (fictional) Guerrilla. Most Missouri guerrillas (bushwhackers) didn't even carry rifles or shotguns. Some did, but very few. Heck, they didn't even wear uniforms. Almost all of them carried between two and eight revolvers. Sometimes more. They fought by ambush, close, quick, sudden attacks that left the enemy confused and panic stricken. They did not line up in the middle of a field in neat little rows waiting for the enemy to attack like the big armies of the time. They would hide in the brush or creek beds alongside much used roadways and either wait for enemy troops to happen by or lure them into a trap. Guerrilla warfare was/is a hell of a lot different than standard military warfare. Also FWIW, it wasn't uncommon to see enlisted cavalry troopers with two revolvers. They realised early on that a second revolver was better than a sabre.

Last edited by MJN77; February 14, 2013 at 07:49 PM.
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Old February 15, 2013, 12:45 PM   #24
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Good observation on Confederate Guerillas, MJN777. I have studied them extensively, to include sword use...
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:06 PM   #25
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Thank you sir. I have studied guerrilla warfare in Missouri/Kansas for fifteen years or more. Bill Quantrill and "Bloody Bill" Anderson (two most well known) were rough fellows. By the way, in Jose Wales they show "Bloody Bill" as a man close to 50 years old, the real one was only 24 or 25 when he was killed in 1864.

The real Bloody Bill. Notice two revolvers.


Bill dead. Notice the three Colt revolvers?


Closer dead pic.

Last edited by MJN77; February 15, 2013 at 04:44 PM.
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