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Old January 25, 2013, 03:40 PM   #1
ZVP
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Shotshell bases?

I have always been told "High Brass" bases indicated the powerfull shells.
However I just bought some Estate Super Sport Competition 20 Ga 7 1/2, 7/8 dr shells and they have high bases? I thought these were light loads.
Noone has ever distinguished the need for different height Brass and what it actually does mean to the preformance of a shotshell.
Can someone explain this?
Thanks,
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:07 PM   #2
BigD_in_FL
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Height of brass means absolutely nothing in today's shotgun shells. Back when hulls were paper, the higher bras helped prevent burn through, and like the term Dram Equivalent, it has hung around. Some folks think only high brass shells have the power - not true. The box will tell you the load and the velocity, that is what you need to know to determine of the load is right for you.
Standard target loads run from 7/8 to 1, to 1-1/8oz and from 1145 to 1300 fps.

Any payload heavier and/or faster will typically be a field load (and the recoil will let you know)
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:37 PM   #3
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All of the above is true... as is...

Not many shotshell bases are brass... Too expensive compared to aluminum, steel and other alloys...

True for much more than a decade...

Brent
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:44 PM   #4
Virginian-in-LA
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Activ sort of laid that to rest with their all plastic shells. I miss them.
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:52 PM   #5
ZVP
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So the height of the base metal means nothing?
I will consult the specifications charts to uncover what loads I buy
(ie) heavy shot and lots of it = good HD loads!
When choosing buckshot, get the biggest size.
Best defense tactics.
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:56 PM   #6
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Yep... it is all about the numbers... Shot size, payload weight, dram eq. or FPS are the indicators you seek out...

Big pellets or heavy slug weight along with a high dram eq or fps is a powerful load...

But higher payload weight results in more recoil felt in the shoulder too...

Brent
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Old January 25, 2013, 07:35 PM   #7
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Hi and Lo

It could be that you will find that some manufacturers will put quite powerful loads in hulls that have "high brass". But they don't have to. The point is that "low brass" hulls are just as strong. Anything to the contrary is just marketing or ignorance.
Back in the days when shot shells were loaded with black powder, there was a real differentiation based on the strength of the shell and the height of the interior base wads. No longer.
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Old January 26, 2013, 02:05 PM   #8
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Length of the shell, these days, seems to be a bigger indication of "heavy load" vs "light load"..../ so most - in a 12ga now - most 2 3/4" shells are more of a target or quail load....3" shells is where you start getting into "heavier payloads of shot" 1 1/4 oz and heavier...and 3 1/2" shells....

A lot of the better "target shells" Remington STS, Remington Nitro, some of the Winchester AA shells are still brass..../ the old Activ shells actually had a steel base inside the plastic..or at least some of them did / but yes, a lot of the promo brand shells ( Estate, Rio, etc will have alloy or steel bases..)...
-----------
But for Target loads...in 12ga ...where 1 1/8 oz shells at 1200 fps were the common load....a lot of us have gone to 1 oz shells at around 1200 fps ...and for the last 3 yrs or so, a lot of us have been experimenting and reloading 7/8 oz shells in 12ga ( more of a typical 20ga load ) and some 3/4 oz loads in 12ga (a typical 28ga load ) ...and since many of us reload, there are all kinds of recipes now for 3/4 oz loads in 12ga hulls at around 1200 fps ...( and saving that extra 1/4 oz or even 3/8 oz of shot per shell ) with the cost of bags of shot heading up to $ 40 a bag....is saving us a lot of money /and our scores have not come down ...

so the old norms on high brass, low brass, typical 12ga loads....are pretty much all out the window these days....
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Old January 26, 2013, 02:28 PM   #9
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Yes I shoot one ounce for trap. 400 shells from a 25 lb. bag vs. 320.

That said 1 1/8 will break more clays. I take umbrage with those that claim there is NO difference. There is a difference.

If and when I start shooting registered, I will shoot 1 1/8 at registered targets. I also shoot 1 1/8 at meat shoots, games, and handicap.

There is a difference. If you center punch every target, there is no difference. I center punch a lot of them, but not all of them. It's those times that the "extra" 1/8th can mean an X on the scorecard. There are no extra points for smoke.
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Old January 26, 2013, 07:14 PM   #10
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Personally, I don't think there is a difference between 1 1/8 oz vs 1 oz shells for registered targets ...either in Trap, Sporting Clays or Skeet..../ yes there are more pellets in a 1 1/8 oz load...but the 1 oz shell, in my experience patterns better - with less flyers out of the pattern.

Whenever I shoot registered ....I shoot 1 oz loads in a 12ga ...and 90% of the time its 1 oz of 8's at about 1225 fps..../ but I carry a few boxes of 9's - for a really close target or a battue - and once in a while a box or so of 7 1/2's for rabbits, or long range targets...( but all 1 oz at 1225 fps )...

But confidence plays a role in all these games - and if anyone thinks that a 1 1/8 oz shell gives them an edge / then that's what they should shoot. But that 1 oz shell that I shoot - gives me about 15-20% less recoil than a 1 1/8 oz shell...and over a 3 or 4 day tournament, mental fatigue plays a role, and I'm more on my game - with a little bit less recoil.

But for shooting with your buddies ....I'm dropping my 12ga loads to 7/8 oz ..and I'm starting to load some 3/4 oz loads vs shooting my 28ga ...and in the heavier 12ga gun / its an even softer shell in the 12ga.
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Old January 26, 2013, 07:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Yes I shoot one ounce for trap. 400 shells from a 25 lb. bag vs. 320.
Shoot 3/4 oz and get 533 per bag. For practice, it is hard to beat
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Old January 30, 2013, 10:05 PM   #12
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"A lot of the better "target shells" Remington STS, Remington Nitro, some of the Winchester AA shells are still brass..."

Most Buckshot ammunition marketed to the Law Enforcement sector have a brass head and are waterproofed at the crimp and primer as well.

Last edited by RMcL; January 31, 2013 at 02:05 AM.
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Old February 12, 2013, 12:25 AM   #13
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More Pellets=More X's

Patterning is a gun vs. gun thing, or a choke vs. choke thing. Lots of different factors play here.

More pellets are more pellets, pure and simple.

If there is anything on the line, whether that be money, a ham, a standing rib roast, etc, etc I will use everything possible that is within the rules of the game.

If 1 1/8th is the maximum load of pellets, which it usually is, that is what I will use.

I would be willing to bet a dozen doughnut holes that those that shoot at the highest levels are using 1 1/8th oz. loads.

I could be wrong, but I would bet those dozen doughnut holes.
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:50 PM   #14
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That would depend on the game. Most US games allow a max of 1-1/8; however several International ones do not - FITASC is a 1oz max; International trap is 24 gms (almost 7/8).

I agree when there is money on the line, use the max - if the recoil does not interfere with your second shot. But for cheap and easy practice, using 3/4 or 7/8 12 gauge reloads saves money and your shoulder from the cumulative effects of recoil over the long term
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