The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 23, 2013, 07:47 PM   #1
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Shooting waaay left - Help!

Hi!

I need some help: I'm always shooting to the left with rifles when using iron sights.

Caliber, type of rifle, type of sights, doesn't matter, I always have to push the front sight waaay left to get to the center.
Strangely it gets worse the shorter the sight radius gets, one of my rifles has a 17'' barrel and v notch front post sights and I was hitting a FOOT left at 50 yds.
Even with the front sight all the way left now I'm still hitting 2'' to the left at 50yds. Its just frustrating, and the front sight pushed so far to the left that it is almost falling off its base looks ugly.

And yes, I'm getting very good consistent groups out to 100yds, once I managed to shoot a group which I could almost cover with my thumb at 100yds - with my Swedish Mauser using irons.

Whats going on?
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 07:52 PM   #2
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Take notice to see if you are tilting (canting) the rifle to left or right.

PS. Are you shooting both eyes open or not?
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:00 PM   #3
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
I usually shoot with both eyes open, I need to close my left eye when using very small diameter peep sights however.

Can canting the rifle change the POI that much? I'm using a good flat rest for my rifle, IF I tilt the rifle it can't be much.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:04 PM   #4
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 4,423
Check the barrel's fit to the stock fore end. There may be a really hard contact point someplace on the right side of the barrel against the fore end.
__________________
US Navy Distinguished Marksman Badge 153
Former US Navy & Palma Rifle Team Member
NRA High Power Master & Long Range High Master
NRA Smallbore Prone Master
Bart B. is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:05 PM   #5
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Bart, I think he said it happens with several different rifles.

Moloch,

If it is happening with different rifles, those are the only things I can think of unless you're really pushing on the side of those triggers...which I would have a hard time believing.

Last edited by Striker1; February 23, 2013 at 08:11 PM.
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:09 PM   #6
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Quote:
Check the barrel's fit to the stock fore end. There may be a really hard contact point someplace on the right side of the barrel against the fore end.
Will do.
Come to think of it, I only shoot surplus rifles with full length wooden stocks with iron sights, so maybe there IS a stock problem. But still, all rifles having the same problem is very unlikely.

Quote:
If it happening with different rifles, those are the only things I can think of unless you're really pushing on the side of those triggers...which I would have a hard time believing.
I'm getting good groups like any other experienced shooter, I doubt it that it has anything to do with my trigger pull. Whatever I'm doing wrong, I do it very consistently...unless its a hardware issue.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:13 PM   #7
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Ever consider shooting left handed to see what happens?
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:15 PM   #8
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
My left eye is the bad one, if I had to shoot a rifle left handed it would have to be scoped.
Otherwise I wouldn't only hit waaay left, I'd hit waaay right, high and low as well.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:18 PM   #9
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Well if you aren't having this problem when using a scope, I refer back to my original guesses.
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:23 PM   #10
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Yep, I'll check the stocks for pressure points.

One thing that especially puzzles me is that it get MUCH worse with short rifles.

Mosin Nagant 91/30 - hits 2'' left at 100
Mosin Nagant m44 - hits 6'' to the left at 100

Both had their front sights still aligned with the factory mark on the sight bases. Used the same ammo in both rifles.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:29 PM   #11
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Quote:
Yep, I'll check the stocks for pressure points.

One thing that especially puzzles me is that it get MUCH worse with short rifles.
Probably has something to do with the shorter sight radius.

By the way, canting the rifle will usually change POI low and in the direction of the cant. I have seen it put rounds off target at 25m...and usually, IME, a right handed shooter will tend to tilt it in toward the body (left)
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:38 PM   #12
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
The quickest way to determine if the cause is with the rifle or the shooter, have another person (preferrably an equally good/bad shot) shoot the rifle to see if the "problem" disappears, or remains.



.
PetahW is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:40 PM   #13
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 2,105
If this happens with multiple rifles, it's NOT the rifles' problem. I've seen some very uniform flinches in my years of shooting and teaching and this sounds like one of them.
Mobuck is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:40 PM   #14
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Quote:
Probably has something to do with the shorter sight radius.
Yeah, logic dictates that the shorter the sight radius the LESS you need to adjust the sights. But in my case its the other way around.

Next time on the range I'll take a look through the barrel, aim it at the target and then look where the sights are aiming at. That way I can make sure that the sights are not mounted tilted/off center etc.
Quote:
I have seen it put rounds off target at 25m...and usually, IME, a right handed shooter will tend to tilt it in toward the body (left)
How can I make sure that I'm not tilting the gun?

Quote:
The quickest way to determine if the cause is with the rifle or the shooter, have another person (preferrably an equally good/bad shot) shoot the rifle to see if the "problem" disappears, or remains.
Thats a good idea, though its funny how hard it is to find people which are a good shot with iron sights these days, everyone shoots either scopes or vernier target sights nowadays.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:45 PM   #15
Tom Matiska
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2000
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa
Posts: 1,002
You aren't by any chance right handed but left eye dominant?
Tom Matiska is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:46 PM   #16
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
If you can't tell just by looking at the front sight, aim the sights at a vertical line, close your eyes, relax and open them...or, have a friend check it out while you hold the gun normally.
Striker1 is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 08:51 PM   #17
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
I'll try that, thanks.

Quote:
You aren't by any chance right handed but left eye dominant?
No, fortunately I'm right eye dominant and right handed.
Moloch is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 09:24 PM   #18
the rifleer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2008
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,252
If you move the front sight to the left, that will move the shot to the right.

The only possibility I see is you not lining up the sights correctly. They should be perfectly centered and perfectly level. The shorter the sight radius, the easier it is to screw up.
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.
the rifleer is offline  
Old February 24, 2013, 01:20 PM   #19
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,885
I had that problem . My POI was always to the right , iron , red-dot , scope all rifles . My problem was canting the rifle .I was shooting about 3/4 MOA to the right . I would shoot sub MOA groups but always to the right . Every time I pick up any rifle and put it up to my cheek the cross hairs look canted . My natural/comfortable stance/hold makes the rifle cant . I re leveled all my scopes and have been really making an effort not to cant my rifle . I'm shooting better now .
__________________
If you have a problem with everybody .

It's not everybody that has the problem
Metal god is offline  
Old February 24, 2013, 02:24 PM   #20
jake99
Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 48
I'm not one to give much advice on shooting, but you mentioned Mosins. They're sited with the bayonets on, or extended for an M44. Just commenting to make sure you know about that..
jake99 is offline  
Old February 26, 2013, 04:36 PM   #21
Duzell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2011
Location: Monterrey/hayward
Posts: 627
you may be flinching when firing if your shooting left, its an unconscious action sometimes your anticipating the recoil?
__________________
If zombies, i have gone for big guns, will return soon !

Firearms Project(s): TM15:WIDOW 5.56/300
Duzell is offline  
Old February 27, 2013, 10:30 AM   #22
sc928porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
It sounds as though you are not getting over the top of the rifles far enough. A tighter cheek weld would probably help. The longer the sight radius, the "finer" you can draw to a target. Shorter radius gives you less control. The shorter radius will also be further off if you are not aligned to the sights. Example, rifle vs pistol.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 02:24 PM   #23
KMyerK98
Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2009
Posts: 28
Old Eyes

My eyes are getting old - I can't shoot well with irons anymore because I can't keep the irons and the target all in focus (near sighted) with my glasses on. Or I can't keep the front and rear site in focus at the same time. Peep sights are the only ones I can shoot with any consistency. You might want to try a peep site and see if that helps.

If peeps don't do it then canting or flinching might be it - as suggested earlier. I scope or reddot/Halo most of my stuff now.
KMyerK98 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:06 PM   #24
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 499
Your 17" barrel on the rifle, that shoots way left...might be bent to the left. I had a Polish Tantal AK-74, whose barrel was bent to the right --- so much --- that you could see the bend in the barrel; just by looking at it.

Don't depend on the factory zero settings on old rifles, like the Mosin's. Being out of horizontal alignment by 2" @ 50 yards, is not bad at all.
Erno86 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:27 PM   #25
Quadpod88
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2013
Posts: 93
Have you ever had problems with your right shoulder? I.E: broken collar bone, dislocation, torn ligaments. Not necessarily while shooting, but rather in the past(childhood, teen years, etc).
__________________
God made all men, but it was Sam Colt who made them equal.
Quadpod88 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.21311 seconds with 9 queries