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Old February 9, 2013, 06:15 PM   #1
KROIL
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1911's and Recoil Buffers

I installed a Wilson recoil buffer in my Remington R1 and started getting a few FTF's. I took it out and no FTF's. Anyone else run into any possible buffer related problems ?
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Old February 9, 2013, 06:21 PM   #2
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Had a buffer in a 1911 and it was almost destroyed in 200 rounds. Came to the conclusion that if they were needed the industry would have figured it out by now and they'd all come with them out of the box.
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Old February 9, 2013, 06:33 PM   #3
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The only problems I ever had with my Taurus PT1911 were from some crappy reloads and when I installed a recoil buffer. With the buffer in I had a few FTF. Took the buffer out and that went away. Guess you are right. If they needed buffers the factory would probably put them in. Maybe they are needed with non-factory springs, I don't know.
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Old February 9, 2013, 07:07 PM   #4
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The only time I ever tried a buffer in a 1911 I was getting failures to eject.

Mind you, that was in a gun that never had that issue before and never had that issue again once I removed it.

Recoil buffers in 1911s are about as useful as a kickstand on a tank.
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Old February 9, 2013, 07:23 PM   #5
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Whoever came up with the idea to defile M1911's with those unmentionables,deserves to be tied to the whipping post.
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Old February 9, 2013, 07:28 PM   #6
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I use them in my competition guns never had a problem. I use the extra thick red buff but I don't think they make them any more. Wouldnt suggest using them in a carry gun.

Last edited by 1stmar; February 10, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old February 9, 2013, 11:28 PM   #7
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I don't bother with them any more, but I've used them in the past. Never had a problem with them. Then again, never really saw any benefits either.
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:05 AM   #8
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The proper functioning of the 1911 design depends on the slide bouncing off the frame to add some of the recoil energy to the return of the slide to battery. A buffer that absorbs that energy can cause failure to feed.

The whole idea of the buffer is the result of the myth that the frame must be preserved from being struck by the slide. Nonsense! Billions of rounds have been fired from 1911 pistols and dozens of assorted clones; the slide is supposed to hit the frame and bounce.

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Old February 10, 2013, 12:57 AM   #9
michael t
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Goes right along with the full length guide rods Puts $$$ in someones pocket, Didn't Wilson invent these items ?
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Old February 10, 2013, 11:42 AM   #10
skoro
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1911's and Recoil Buffers

I've never found 1911 recoil to be a problem, so have never tried the buffers. They just seem like an unnecessary expense/hassle.
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:07 PM   #11
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I started carrying a stock 1911A1 as a Marine, at the very end of the Viet Nam War. I shot them from 1975 until today and I have shot enough rounds through one gun in the 70s up to 1984 that I have had to re-barrel it 2 times.

About every jam I have ever had was due to bad ammo or messed-up magazines. It was just like Colt made it, just like when it left the factory, with no extra do-dads at all.

When the new features came out like guide rods and duck-tails, I got a "Gunsight 1911A1" with all the bell and whistles and I shot it a lot and kept it for about 4 years. It was ok, but it didn't do a thing my old stock as a rock 1911 didn’t do just as well, but was harder to field strip.

I still carry a 1911 today quite a lot, and I am still shooting it. Probably 1000 round a year now days as an average. I still use it for fun and to teach classes.

The one I have now is a DCM reconditioned 1911 (not A1) that was sold to a friend in 1956. It’s also just like it left Colt in 1918, except for the Parked finish the Army did on it in the 2nd war. (So I am told anyway. Original 1918 issue 1911s were blued, and mine is parkerized)

My entire point is this;
Most of the do-dads that can be added and are “all the rage” are unnecessary and probably not an improvement at all. I will grant that a polish of the throat and feed ramp are good, and better sights help for older eyes, but other than those 2 things, I am about as happy with a 1911A1 as they were issued to the Army and Marines in WW2, as with any “modern version” and in fact, I am happier with an issue gun. The one I mentioned above I sold, but I still have and keep my old 1918 made 1911.

Add things to you 1911 if they need them to make it run. If it's running fine, don't add anything. Buy ammo instead. Become a better shot with practice.
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:12 PM   #12
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Frog Lube

1911 has been on the job, in the field, and compeating for at least 102 yrs. Only real operational improvement in recent years "Frog Lube" ! Try it.
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:41 PM   #13
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Trying out the CP buffers on my S&W 1911 (with a full length guide rod.) So far so good. I've used WWB, Tula, and Speer frangible. When I first installed it I could no longer sling shot the slide, but after a box of fifty I have no problem.
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Old February 10, 2013, 02:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyphemus

Whoever came up with the idea to defile M1911's with those unmentionables,deserves to be tied to the whipping post.
Pretty much agree, although the whipping post is probably more effort than it's worth. With the variety of recoil spring weights available today, it is far more sensible to use a heavier spring with heavy (say, 255 @ 850 fps) loads. By adding a buffer you are simply introducing an unnecessary part to a beautifully-balanced machine. Small wonder that it affects things like ejection.
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Old February 10, 2013, 03:26 PM   #15
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You guys can pontificate all you want about jmb's design and how any change is unecessary..fact is everyone has different purposes for their guns. I have everything from a carry officers to safe queens to competition guns... There is no single answer. I have used recoil buffers, flgr, extended mag releases, mag wells, ambi thumb safeties, grip safeties, bull barrels and much more.. They all have purpose in the right gun for the right use. Do buffers work? I don't know, I have over 25000 reliable rounds through one of my guns and have never had a problem with one. I don't have a problem with recoil, but when competing ill take any edge I can get, including a harts recoil reducing guide rod and a buffer. As I previously said, they don't belong in a carry gun, but that doesn't make them evil, useless or a waste. I love jmb designs, but 1911s are being used in ways I'm sure jmb never dreamed of, if he had, maybe he would have changed the sights or something. You can't tell the beaver tail grip safety is not an improvement. There's always room for improvement, even on jmb designs.
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Old February 10, 2013, 04:00 PM   #16
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I was told by a gunsmith recoil buffers are junk and not to put them in any gun.
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Old February 10, 2013, 05:08 PM   #17
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So because Wilson Combat ( one of the best 1911 mfgs around ) ....installs shok buffs in all of their 1911's, except the 9mm versions, they don't know what they're doing ???

Come on guys ...they can be installed / in most any 1911 - but there may need to be some adjustment made to the guide rod or the spring...to make them run 100% with the shok buff installed. Figure out the adjustments or find a gunsmith that knows how to do it ...or take them out.

All of my Wilson Combat 1911's came from the factory with Shok Buffs installed ...and I've kept using them / and both of my Wilsons have a few rounds thru them / one about 25,000 rds - the other about 45,000..thru them ...and the shok buffs have not caused a single issue. I change them when I change the firing pin springs - about every 6,000 rds...they're cheap / like recoil springs. The gun with 25,000 rds thru it - is my primary carry gun ...a Wilson CQB 5" in .45 acp ....and it has a Shok Buff in it all the time / and both of my Wilson's ran 100% right out of the box when they were new.../ and still going strong - although I did have to replace an extractor recently ( tip broke off )...but Wilson replace it free ..and paid shipping both ways ...and I had the gun back in about 10 days !
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Old February 10, 2013, 09:44 PM   #18
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I used them for awhile in the 80's and had one frag out and distribute itself around the recoil spring and guide plug. I went to rack the gun and it felt weird... so I tore it down and cleaned it out. Perhaps they make them better these days.

I've never had a buffer related failure since I quit using them. I do know of two Wilson extractors that came chipped, new in the package; one I ordered via Brownells and another ordered by a friend. So I don't use those anymore, either.
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Old February 11, 2013, 06:28 AM   #19
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Buff

Those little plastic thingies are proof positive that Marketing 101 still works as well as it did in the days of the Snake Oil salesman.

To wit:

First convince the customer that he needs it...and then sell it to him.

One thing that they absolutely do is reduce rearward slide travel and runup to the magazine...sometimes contributing to or actually causing ejection and feed/RTB problems. As with any "Improvement" there's always something else lost in the process.

For instance:

Quote:
You can't tell (me that) the beaver tail grip safety is not an improvement.
Depends on your idea of what an improvement constitutes. Yes, they do prevent hammer bite and the underside of the grip safety tang from blistering the web of your hand when you work to get the highest grip possible while burning through several hundred rounds in a session, but they also eliminate the spot weld during those times that you don't get just the right, two-handed grip on the gun...such as in a sudden, violent close range attack. As with so many such "Improvements" that are more geared toward playing games of "Let's pretend that we're in a gunfight" on Sunday afternoons...it's often discovered that they sometimes don't pan out in the real world.
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Old February 11, 2013, 08:23 PM   #20
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Drumming up repeat business is very valuable. Drumming up repeat business for a less than worthless item is sheer genius.
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Old February 11, 2013, 10:38 PM   #21
1stmar
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That's why they make the bump on the grip safety. Btw, copper used a beaver tail grip, so it's not only gamers.. Most defensive pistols include them.

Last edited by 1stmar; February 11, 2013 at 10:44 PM.
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Old February 12, 2013, 06:38 AM   #22
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re:

Quote:
That's why they make the bump on the grip safety. Btw, copper used a beaver tail grip, so it's not only gamers.. Most defensive pistols include them.
There again, we have an answer in search of a question. We got along for about 85 years without a speed bump, and...for those whose hands didn't fare well with the standard grip safety...with a little knowledge and understanding of the way they function...about 5 minutes spent timing the release with a smooth mill file will correct it.

Often, the release timing of some few grip safeties is whence the bug nests. Properly in spec, they should release at about the halfway point. The problem seems to be that many present-day copy and clone makers are either unable or unwilling to adhere to the proper dimensions and geometry...or they think that blueprint specs are suggestions.

For the record...I've never had to time a grip safety that released at the correct point...for anybody. I've had to adjust several that weren't within spec.
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Old February 12, 2013, 07:52 AM   #23
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"The problem seems to be that many present-day copy and clone makers are either unable or unwilling to adhere to the proper dimensions and geometry...or they think that blueprint specs are suggestions."
Do I read trigger over travel screw here?
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Old February 12, 2013, 10:51 AM   #24
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I tried the recoil buffer on my SA Milspec. I had zero problems with it. It also did not improve anything for so I took it out. Yeah it cost me a few dollars.

None of my 1911 clones are up to the original design. That's fine with me. I have zero problems with them.

To say that there is no improvement over the original design, that is your opinion and that's fine with me too. lol

Last edited by Marquezj16; February 12, 2013 at 07:25 PM.
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Old February 12, 2013, 06:13 PM   #25
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An answer in search of a question? What percent of 1911s are made with extended grip safeties? Hardly an answer in search of a question. I wouldn't own a 1911 wo one. It improves the ergonomics dramatically. If you want to stay in 1911 so be it, being closed mindded rarely leads to innovation. I guess cooper was nieve as well.
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