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Old February 8, 2013, 08:17 PM   #1
Willie Sutton
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19th Century Colt Copies

Since we were on the subject of Belgian 1860 copies, to be precise the Centaur's...

What experience does anyone have with this category of contemporary
copy?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=328518322


I have to say that it's intriguing... contemplating seeing what these look like in the flesh.


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Old February 8, 2013, 09:33 PM   #2
pohill
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They say this is a 6 shot, but it looks like 5 (the Pocket Navy was 5 shot). I don't think the Belgians made the 1862.
This gun has absolutely no marks at all? I'd stay clear of that one, at that price, with those wire brush marks.
Check this out:
http://www.marks4antiques.com/apa/PE....U5hz9hoK.dpbs

http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/p...5-c-2c516605c2

** Sold for $572 (Garth's)

check this out from a year ago on THR: (sounds like the same gun with the countersunk wedge screw).
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-641413.html

Last edited by pohill; February 8, 2013 at 10:01 PM.
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Old February 9, 2013, 03:12 AM   #3
Bootsie
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No visible proof marks? Very strange for a Belgian Colt.
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Old February 9, 2013, 09:36 AM   #4
Willie Sutton
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^^ I was using that particular auction as a generic example of the breed, not as one that I am planning to buy. Looking at it with a critical eye, it's pretty clear that it's a counterfeit.

I was just curious about any personal hands-on experience with 19th century contemporary copies of the Colt series. They must have been fairly common, and there must be examples remaining for collecting.


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Last edited by Willie Sutton; February 9, 2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old February 9, 2013, 11:05 AM   #5
sltm1
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They come up occcasionally,here's one on GB now.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=328984009
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Old February 9, 2013, 01:17 PM   #6
woodnbow
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Cool, ^^^^ pretty obviously a copy and the proportions are wrong here and there but it's a nice old gun in surprisingly good condition..
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Old February 9, 2013, 05:57 PM   #7
Newton24b
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look up kyber pass or khyber pass copies on a search engine. that area of pakistan has always made interesting copies of european guns. ive seen photos of pass made colts that were bizarre...yet nice. example, a colt navy with a dragoon length cylinder. even seen khyber pass made smle enfields. complete duplications, just not the original quality.
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Old February 9, 2013, 10:51 PM   #8
Willie Sutton
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Just FYI, I corresponded with the guy selling the "copy" that I started off the thread with, and we discussed the provenence of the piece. He bought it from an auction house with an appraisal showing it was reputed to be a 19th century Brevette copy, yet the double diamond of ASM was found on the butt... so he agrees that he was screwed and has in turn removed his auction. Nice enough guy, makes flintlocks from scratch, just was not knowlagable enough about this to avoid being taken to the cleaners.

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Old February 9, 2013, 11:49 PM   #9
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The double diamond is not ASM. AFAIK nobody knows who the manufacturer was that did use it.
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:46 AM   #10
Willie Sutton
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^^ Clues?

Italian for sure?



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Old February 10, 2013, 07:00 AM   #11
pohill
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What made him end the auction? Did he just realize it was a fake?
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Old February 10, 2013, 09:20 AM   #12
Willie Sutton
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^^^ As I wrote, he and I corresponded and I offered the data and he made the decision that it was not properly represented. Our correspondance was very cordial and he was unsuspecting that he himself had been taken when he purchased it. He had bought it based on it's appraisal paperwork from the auction house he bought it from. The Italian makers markings was the final straw. He's a good guy, an old gunsmith that is now 87 years old, specializing in making and heat treating replacement parts for flintlock rifles. Civil War era stuff is "new" to him... this was news to him, but he diligently looking into the data that I sent him and came to his own conclusion.

He's unsure what he will do now with it. Still licking his wounds. Gratefully he paid about what he was asking, not a fortune for the lesson he learned.


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Old February 10, 2013, 09:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
He's unsure what he will do now with it. Still licking his wounds. Gratefully he paid about what he was asking, not a fortune for the lesson he learned.
Still a pretty expensive lesson but I guess the best lessons are.
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