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Old February 8, 2013, 10:39 PM   #1
barnbwt
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PE57/SIG AMT

Has anyone here either owned or built one of these fine Swiss rifles?


(The outsides of those mags are milled, btw )

Probably a lost cause, but I'm a sucker for the unique and interesting . C'mon, it even has the K31 bolt handle

I'm a fan of the performance of the 7.5 Swiss round in my K31's, and pairing that excellence with an over-produced HK-style roller delay action seems like a compelling combo. I saw there are parts kits out there, and supposedly a few folk are making receiver repair sections or flats, so a build is a possibility with the right BATFE info. I'm told the recievers are a sheet/trunion design that is rebuildable provided that sheet metal repair sections are obtainable.

The receivers I'm seeing are PE57's, which were semi-auto, so the MG/NFA angle should be a non-issue. 922r however... looks like I'd have to be making some replacement parts (not the end of the world, though).

I'm highly tempted; these guns were supposedly the most expensive service-rifle ever produced, are worth north of 5000$ completed here in the States, and the kits cost less than a run-of-the-mill CETME kit.

Anyone with experience with these? Are they worth all of the above? And a bag of chips?

TCB
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Old February 8, 2013, 10:55 PM   #2
5.56RifleGuy
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I think creeper has some experiance with these.
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Old February 9, 2013, 08:57 AM   #3
FALPhil
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I would love to have one. There weren't enough kits avialable to justify tooling up to make receivers and 922 parts.

Have you ever found any tech info on recievers?
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Old February 9, 2013, 01:19 PM   #4
barnbwt
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Supposedly there were some guys who were going to sell repair sections and folded-receivers, but I think they got stuck in ATF approval hell, and have been in a holding pattern ever since. Apparently the folded receiver was just .063" 4140, so nothing too exotic if you can just figure out a way to form it the way you like.

It seems like it'd almost be easier to self-fab one if blueprints are out there somewhere, since the kits are SA anyway (therefore no ATF approval needed, right?). I'd have to make the 922r parts myself, anyway--why not the receiver as well?

Heck, I'd be tempted to blacksmith the thing on an anvil--got all the time in the world to get it just right . As much as those rifles cost here, it'd probably still be worth the trouble

I'd love to know just how awesome the rifles are, before committing to such an endeavor. I have seen it written several places the recoil is controllable (impressively so, compared to G3's). I also saw numerous assertions it is more durable than a G3 Now that's sayin' something!

TCB
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Old February 10, 2013, 01:16 AM   #5
JT-AR-MG42
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I've shot an AMT that had been converted but never a Swiss 57, semi or otherwise. The AMT was lots of fun and recoil was much more tolerable than any G3 I've ever shot. The AMT recoil sensation had a sort of rocking motion to it, if that makes any sense.

Passed on a PE57 in 1982 NIB with two mags for 2 and regretted it many a time since.

Last one I saw was at a show about 6 years ago. Same deal, NIB with 6 mags, sling, bayonet, and small parts kit.
It had a P.O.R. on it which I thought was a rather strange way of pricing a gun at a show.
I had 4500 on me so I thought 'What the --, let's just get it'.
I was reaching for my money as I asked the price. 7500.
Ouch! Being told no hurt.
It sold within the first hour of the show.

Good luck with your project, JT
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Old February 10, 2013, 12:51 PM   #6
barnbwt
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A G3 with milder recoil--how about that! That's good to hear, since 7.5x55 is a pretty stout round. I think I'm sold, so I guess I have the next decade to look forward to completing the project . The BM59 will have wait a while longer, I suppose...

Found these interesting links on receiver repairs (old, but hopefully still relevant)
http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...-and-receivers
http://www.mg42.us/viewtopic.php?t=9456

So maybe making a repair is possible after all

TCB
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Old February 11, 2013, 08:19 AM   #7
Skans
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The Sig AMT is my Grail rifle; I'd love to have one but can't afford current prices for these Swiss works of art.
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Old February 11, 2013, 03:31 PM   #8
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There's a guy that was selling the repair sections on the FALfiles.

Here's the actual ad.

Last edited by blfuller; February 12, 2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old February 11, 2013, 07:42 PM   #9
Bart Noir
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About 5 years back I had the chance to buy one at DJs in Bothell, Wa. I believe it was in .308 caliber and I found it actually balanced and pointed nicely.

What I didn't find was the necessary $5500 in my wallet

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Old February 11, 2013, 10:47 PM   #10
barnbwt
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Yeah, I can't justify 5K for a mere rifle either--that's why I'm hoping a functional facsimile can be cobbled together from a (far) cheaper parts kit. References to these rifles are scant on the internet, indeed, they're the most obscure rifle I've ever looked into for sure (that last was the Evans Rifle, so that's saying something ). Interest is sparse, but seems consistent. Like clockwork, there's some guy saying he's gonna make flats/receivers about every other year, and constant pleas from parts kit owners to make it happen

At least a few people have met with success (how they met 922r remains a mystery to me, though...) so it can be done with enough effort. Hopefully I can get the parts I need for <1K, and hopefully get everything hooked up for not terribly much more than that (I've always wanted a TIG, anyway). That's a lot of hope, but I have it in spades

TCB
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Old February 12, 2013, 05:28 AM   #11
ZEN.45
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Never owned one, but I see the PE57 and 510-4’s (.308) regularly at the range and I’ve tried them a few times.

It seem to be a rifle some love and others hate.
It’s loved for the ‘look’, sights, manufacturing quality, precision, reliability and gentle recoil.
It’s hated for the weight, ‘look’, weight, over engineered, weight, overrated precision, weight and because it’s rather heavy.

Personally I believe the PE57 doesn’t live up to its reputation of precision. It’s caliber, sights and manufacturing quality give it excellent precision but not exceptional. The Swiss military seem to agree … when they issued requirements for the successor they wanted the precision at 300m to be equal to the Stgw.57. It turned out the Stgw.90’s precision wasn’t equal but better.
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:16 PM   #12
kcub
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I owned an AMT for a while. Great rifle. No semi is worth that price in my opinion. Thats why I no longer own it.
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Old February 13, 2013, 04:19 PM   #13
car
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I would love to own one, but they are always priced about $2K over what I was willing to pay.
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Old February 13, 2013, 09:53 PM   #14
barnbwt
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Quote:
No semi is worth that price in my opinion. Thats why I no longer own it.
I know the feeling (I own a Five-seveN and am mighty tempted to sell, these days). I ended up getting the kit I was looking at for 650$. That's a lot for some scrap metal but the existence of both repair sections and replacement barrels allows for completing the rifle, which would then be worth a pretty penny (even as a reweld) if I ever feel the need to sell to make more room in the future.

I checked out a video on the construction/internals on the gun at forgottenweapons.com and it is ridiculous how over-thought and over-designed these guns are. The locking rollers (or levers, rather) have about 1/3 more bearing surface than a G3, and the bearing surfaces on the bolt are brazed-on superhard steel inserts. The bolt itself is far more massive than the G3's. According to the video, the G3 was originally designed for an intermediate round, and is only marginally capable of handling the more powerful 308. The Stgw57 was designed around the 7.5x55 from the start, and is therefore more massive, but better suited to round's power ("better" being subjective, I'm sure )

The barrels available are 7.62x51, but rechambering seems possible (if not practical, due to caliber scarcity, fluting, and a funky shoulder contour) for a more "accurate" reproduction. A daunting build, indeed

TCB
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:21 PM   #15
B. Lahey
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I didn't know there were this many others desiring this unusual lunker. I feel slightly less weird about it now.
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Old December 3, 2013, 11:03 AM   #16
s0ftailfxstc
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Swiss PE57 repair kit & barrel needed

Hey All,
I'm new to this forum and was hoping someone could lead me in the right direction.
I need a repair kit and barrel for my PE57...any ideas?
Thx!

Tip
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Old December 3, 2013, 07:24 PM   #17
blfuller
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Did you look at this posting here...
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...highlight=PE57

Contact the Artty62 member and see what is going on with the repair kits.
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Old December 3, 2013, 08:02 PM   #18
FairWarning
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No, although I do have a bayonet for one.

And I have a K31 as well (love it and the caliber). The PE57 is a bit too rich for my blood...
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Old December 5, 2013, 08:51 AM   #19
Skans
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Anyone who has a Sig AMT and wants to part with it, I have some good stuff to trade for it.

Last edited by Skans; December 5, 2013 at 09:29 AM.
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Old December 5, 2013, 10:19 PM   #20
barnbwt
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I ended up buying the kit 10mos ago, lol

I still haven't built mine yet, though I did manage to find an *original* barrel in 7.5 Swiss like God intended. I also bought a 308 repro STGW57-profile barrel from artty62 at the same I got the shell; both are of excellent quality, but 308 requires bolt face, ejector, and cam mods (at least mag mods aren't really needed). None of those things are easily replaceable so I'll keep as much original as possible for now. If I find a spare bolt head and ejector, I'll probably make a 308 conversion (which may still not run great on light 308 since the cams will be unaltered). There at least seems to be a source for some small parts on Gunbroker now, though an ejector is still 40$ (and probably worth every penny, as complicated as they are).

This kit was the finest example of machining in weapons I've seen, until I unboxed my ZB37 kit. Truly a feat of engineering the likes of which we won't soon see again. I am "warming up" by completing my much-cheaper AR70 receiver first (the receiver construction is identical to the STGW) and then the Swiss is probably next, and will start life as a 4-rounder (modded blank-firing magazines) to skirt 922r during testing and compliance part manufacture. The ZB will probably take longer /massive sarcasm/

TCB
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