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Old February 14, 2013, 02:18 PM   #51
vector91
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I am a believer in both open and concealed carry. I believe there is a time each however I don't believe that just because there are many opposed to it we should stop open carrying. Same thing with everything else in life if you dont like it too bad. Atleast thats my opinion
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Old February 14, 2013, 02:29 PM   #52
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I fully support open carry and I'm not afraid to do it myself. It's my right in my state and I believe strongly it should be my right as an American in all 50 states.
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Old February 14, 2013, 02:32 PM   #53
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When a police officer approaches me, for any reason, and I haven't committed a crime or intend to, I could care less if he's confused, angry, hungry, constipated, etc... I will follow strong legal advice and never speak to a police officer under any circumstances. Anytime it comes down to the word of a cop against a citizen, the cop wins. I encourage everyone to view the link I posted earlier in this thread, and not follow the guidance of internet yayhoos, especially the kind that throw empty virtual threats of thumping heads, etc... Now I'm done, do as you will....
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Old February 14, 2013, 02:48 PM   #54
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noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.

I'll stick by what I know has always worked for me in my life when dealing with them. My way has never got me arrested to begin with.

As for empty internet threats, I'll give that comment all the attention it deserves.
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:02 PM   #55
Gaerek
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I have mixed feelings about this. We have a right to carry a gun. Open or otherwise. The only reason people perceive it to be unwise is because carrying a gun openly, if you aren't a LEO or some kind of security, is a social taboo. I don't open carry often (in certain situations, I will), and I certainly don't do it as a political statement.

Proponents of OC will say things like "A right unused is a right that will get taken away." But the truth is, this is a fallacy. You're bringing into the forefront something that most non-gun people think isn't legal, and they are going to think that only police should be able to do that.

One only needs to look at California. They used to allow open carry as long as the firearm was unloaded. There was a huge, politically motivated, open carry movement. Law makers and the new Governor saw this and all they saw was a loophole that needed to be closed.

Think about it this way. What if the Gay Rights movement (I'm not making a political statement about this movement...I'm simply using it as an example) started in the 50's? It would have gotten shut down quickly. Laws preventing that type of behavior would have been drawn up and passed so quickly. Now, things are going the other way. Why? Because society is ready for it. Society wasn't ready for it. Society still isn't ready to accept that regular citizens have a right to carry a gun with them. Things are getting better, but we need to be careful about how we go about it, or more things like California might happen.
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.
Thing is, my way, I'll never see a court. We had an expression in the Navy. "Loose lips sink ships". I was just trying to give others, if they cared, a free legal opinion on the issue (the earlier link). An opinion that was backed up by an experienced cop. It pays to understand what cops do and why they do it. I have nothing against cops, and I understand they're just doing their job, but I know that nothing I say to a cop can help me and anything I say can hurt me. You should really watch the video so you know what I'm talking about. Might help you some day. Besides, your credibility and experiences are pretty much moot after your "thump heads" diatribe.
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Old February 15, 2013, 03:49 AM   #57
JimmyR
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a response to Kevin

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinAustin View Post
I just wrote a blog post about my views on open carry.

It can be read here: http://www.personalccw.com/blog/

Feel free to comment. Great thing about America is we can disagree.
My comment?

I think you're off base here in a big way. If "intimidation" is the only conclusion you can come to as a reason for OC, then I must sincerely question your ability to draw conclusions.

I CC about 70% of the time, but when I OC, its not because I want to intimidate or because I feel like a bad@$$. I OC normally for a few simple reasons:

1) comfort- an owb holster on my belt is infinitely more comfortable to carry a weapon, especially heavier, full size pistols.
2) ease of access- if CC was a better way to carry a pistol, LEOs would carry concealed. Fact is, it is easier and faster to draw unconcealed than it is to draw from concealment.
3) attire- some parts of my attire don't lend themselves well to an IWB holster.

I live in a state that allows OC and CC. When I OC, I have had a number of responses- ranging from asking questions to support. I had a lady in the line at the grocery store say she felt SAFER knowing someone with a sidearm was nearby. She wasn't telling me- she was telling the person behind her. I have had people ask questions about why I carry a gun, asking if I feel threatened, etc. I take these opportunities to talk to people about guns, and inform them of their rights.

Further, OCing isn't always even that noticeable. Most folks never even notice my weapon, since i keep it in a pancake holster close to my body. Some people do, but many don't. I don't walk around with a sandwich board advertising a CZ-75 on my hip, any more than you do.

I browsed your website, and if I lived in your area, I might have considered you for further training, if not for this blog. Your post comes across as not a lack of understanding about open carrying, but a lack of attempting to understand open carrying. I can't say this is how you think and feel, but this is how it comes across.

There is a big difference between reccomending CC after debating the pros and cons and publishing a slanted post and encouraging people not to exercise their right to carry- either openly or under concealment.
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Old February 15, 2013, 06:58 AM   #58
Ben Towe
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I OC about 75% of the time. It isn't so much of a political statement as a necessity. I wear overalls much of the time and concealing is a difficult proposition, so I just use a Fobus paddle holster. In the winter of course it is covered by a jacket much of the time, but it's wide open in warmer weather.
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:09 AM   #59
vector91
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Quote:
I fully support open carry and I'm not afraid to do it myself. It's my right in my state and I believe strongly it should be my right as an American in all 50 states.
Exactly, couldnt have said it better myself.
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Old February 15, 2013, 08:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
noelf2 you go ahead and hide behind the idea that a lawyer convinced you was a smart way to deal with cops. You can hope it protects you in court.

I'll stick by what I know has always worked for me in my life when dealing with them. My way has never got me arrested to begin with.

As for empty internet threats, I'll give that comment all the attention it deserves.
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One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.

Immediately freaking out is not going to be helpful. Pragmatically ticking off the cop is going to make things go bad. legally, dpeending on your behavior it may start the fun chain of reasonable suspicion and again everything can go down hill.
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Old February 15, 2013, 09:25 AM   #61
noelf2
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Quote:
One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.
Key words are "be polite, courteous, etc". Totally agree, and that is also the opinion of legal experts, but legal experts do not suggest that you "answer smaller questions, and they will not agree that "It's not that hard". Anything you say can hurt you, nothing you say can actually help you. Watch the video.

Quote:
Immediately freaking out is not going to be helpful. Pragmatically ticking off the cop is going to make things go bad. legally, dpeending on your behavior it may start the fun chain of reasonable suspicion and again everything can go down hill.
The easiest thing to rember, which will help you from freaking out, is to remain polite, but insist a lawyer or your lawyer be present before you answer any questions. Cops understand that, and if they are questioning you, they are trying to establish a reasonable suspicion (they don't have it yet). Talking to them about circumstances that you are sure can't encriminate you in some way, may incriminate you in some way. Ask any lawyer!!!
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Old February 15, 2013, 02:23 PM   #62
Gaerek
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It may seem that I am against OC, I'm certainly not, and I find myself doing it on occasion. What I'm against is the political statements, and how some go about doing it. Guns are a very polarizing topics. Going around with an AR slung across your back (or walking around with a camera with the sole purpose of getting LE interaction) to make a statement does three things:

1. Pro Gun rights people feel warm and fuzzy, and it strengthens their convictions on gun rights.
2. Pro Gun Control people feel that these types of actions confirm their beliefs (whether they are right or wrong) about "gun nuts" and it strengthens their convictions on gun control.
3. People who don't care, continue on not caring, except some of them question why someone needs to carry a deadly weapon out in public, and may start thinking that particular trend needs to stop. They're ok if it's hidden, you know, out of sight, out of mind, but God forbid people can see it!!

Doing stuff like this will rarely sway people to our side, though I'm sure there are some examples of it.

Having said that, there are a bunch of legitimate reasons to open carry. Most have been mentioned in this thread. 95% of the time, I'm CC. But if I'm headed to the range, even if I have stops going there or coming back, I'll usually be OC. I OC a lot in my house as it's more comfortable, and if I have to run to the store or something, I usually won't take the time to swap out holsters just for that. There's other reasons too. I just think using it as a political statement isn't a terribly great idea...I'll invoke the California open carriers again for this one...
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Old February 15, 2013, 04:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
One can both be polite, answer smaller questions, and still protect one's constitutional rights. Its not that hard. Be polite, courteous etc. If it gets more serious, remain polite and courteous, but politely assert your rights. It won't stop an arrest, but it will preserve your rights under a bad search/arrest.
Yes I can't stress this enough. I am not LE, but I have lots of family who are. Answering simple questions can avoid misunderstandings about who I am... most importantly, I am not whoever it is they are looking for. If they happen to be looking for someone who matches my description, and I am rude, evasive, or refuse to speak with them, I might find myself taken to the police station. In the end, I am sure it will all get sorted out, but now I am paying my attorney $1000, I have ruined my entire day, and I have endured uneeded stress... for what?

Quote:
Proponents of OC will say things like "A right unused is a right that will get taken away." But the truth is, this is a fallacy.
Yes, totally agree. Guess what, we all have the right to make gay p 0 r n... who wants to exercise that right? Volunteers please... better hurry, before they take it away !

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Old February 15, 2013, 05:11 PM   #64
timn8er
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+1 to noelf2 for linking that video. Very informative! I'm gathering from this
forum & others that if someone breaks into my home & I defend myself by shooting that person, I will most likely be arrested? I'm in Oklahoma, if that
makes any difference.
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Old February 15, 2013, 09:13 PM   #65
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Quote:
A right you are afraid to exercise isn't much of a right ...
I totally agree! Obviously I don't walk around in T-shirts during the winter. In the summer I open carry more times than not. I've had some very good discussions with people curious about open carry and firearms in general.
I have never had a negative reaction or comment from anyone. {includung police}
No one has ever run out of a store screaming, ''he's got a gun, run for your lives''!
Quote:
Further, OCing isn't always even that noticeable. Most folks never even notice my weapon, since i keep it in a pancake holster close to my body. Some people do, but many don't. I don't walk around with a sandwich board advertising a CZ-75 on my hip, any more than you do.
This has been my experience most of the time. Most people are to wrapped up in their Iphones and daily lives to even notice I carring a gun anyway.

I have the right to OC in Pa, case closed.
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Old February 17, 2013, 05:21 AM   #66
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ClydeFrog, a concealed carrier who deliberately reveals his weapon where it is not legal to openly carry is not "Open Carrying," at least not legally.

People who deliberately seek confrontations while otherwise lawfully open carrying are a very specific subset.

A lot of people open carry, and don't make the news. In some areas, it is no big deal. And, as with any number of other things, how one behaves often makes more of an impression than what one actually does.
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Old February 17, 2013, 08:17 AM   #67
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True but....

I agree but to be a gun owner in today's USA, you should be a mature, responsible ADULT.
I think a lot of people latch on to the 2A issue or OC to make a political point or to feed their warped feelings/ego.

OC laws or ordinances are not wrong but firearms are not props or toys.
Reckless or immature behavior could quickly turn a lot of people against gun owners in volatile places where gun laws could go either way.

I would agree though that in areas with clear OC laws, the "hey, your scaring everyone with your exposed gun" LE excuse is lame.
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Old February 17, 2013, 01:44 PM   #68
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Do you realize how difficult it is to conceal a 7 1/2" Super Black Hawk?????
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Old February 17, 2013, 06:44 PM   #69
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It is legal to open carry in the great state of Virginia but I don't see anyone doing it too often. I was in a restaurant eating breakfast about 3 weeks ago and a young man and his two daughters walked in and sat two tables over from me. He was carrying a revolver on his hip and no one payed much attention to it. I've been out and about in stores/shops and people come in with their guns on their hips and I just haven't noticed much of a reaction by anyone around. I'm ok with it.
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Old February 17, 2013, 07:15 PM   #70
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Re: Public displays of open carry

As a kid it was common to see someone during hunting season stop at a country place and walk in with a sidearm. No one thought anything, plus you usually knew the person.
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Old February 18, 2013, 06:35 AM   #71
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Open carry is not prohibited here in Pa. There are quite a few who open carry handguns regularly. I prefer CC for carry.

There is a Pa Forum where the OC people post stories while carrying. Most are uneventful. Only a few have incidents where they are contacted by LE.
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Old February 19, 2013, 05:30 AM   #72
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ship Ahoy
Open carry is not prohibited here in Pa. There are quite a few who open carry handguns regularly. I prefer CC for carry.

There is a Pa Forum where the OC people post stories while carrying. Most are uneventful. Only a few have incidents where they are contacted by LE.
I am on a Indiana Gun Owners forum, and members post OC stories on a regular basis. Most are largely uneventful.
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Old February 19, 2013, 10:30 AM   #73
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I watched that farce of a video Noelf2. A law professor, really? That is your source of all great knowledge. A video posted on youtube by a law professor, unnamed, unknown. Some jerk in a tie behind a podium in a classroom. There must be 100 thousand of these guys in the country so what makes this guy stand out.

What is it about this video that makes his statements credible at all?
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Old February 19, 2013, 10:58 AM   #74
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Quote:
I watched that farce of a video Noelf2. A law professor, really? That is your source of all great knowledge. A video posted on youtube by a law professor, unnamed, unknown. Some jerk in a tie behind a podium in a classroom. There must be 100 thousand of these guys in the country so what makes this guy stand out.

What is it about this video that makes his statements credible at all?
Your funny... Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Duane_(professor)

You would probably associate with other non-law assessments like the "Weekly Standard" rebuttal of Professor Duane's "jerk in a tie behind a podium" lecture, so I'll link it here too. In my opinion, they're not understanding what the professor is talking about:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog...nt_talk_to.asp

James Duane isn't saying "don't help solve crimes", he's just saying "don't talk to the police". Cops on the scene are note takers, and they can (and do) get things wrong. You can still be called as a witness / credible source with the guidance of your lawyer. You simply say that you will cooperate, but you need legal guidance first. Much different than Rev. Sharpton's "Don't Snitch" idiocy.

Did you listen to the Police Officer affirming the professors message? Last half of the youtube video?
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Old February 19, 2013, 11:19 AM   #75
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If it's legal to OC in your state, I believe in 'picking the time & place' to do so.

OC is legal in Georgia. I OC around the house and in town which are in rural N. Georgia. But if I'm going down to the Atlanta area, I CC to avoid any potential problems with the local cops.

It works for me but to each his own.
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