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Old February 15, 2013, 04:28 PM   #151
Vanya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbob
The sheriff is lying when he says the fire was unintentional. And there is no investigation (unless he's lying about that too.)
If you carefully read what he says, he doesn't say the fire was unintentional. He says it wasn't set with the intention of burning Mr. Dorner out:

"Although the canisters included pyrotechnic tear gas, which generates heat,
'We did not intentionally burn down that cabin to get Mr. Dorner out,' McMahon said."

If their intention was to burn him to death, this is a really nifty bit of prevarication.

I'm sure there will be an investigation... of sorts.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:01 AM   #152
ClydeFrog
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The Hunted...

I was thinking of novels and/or films with a Dormer like character. The suspense drama; The Hunted with actors Tommy Lee Jones & Benicio Del Toro was a well made film. www.imdb.com
The end fight scene is worth watching.

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Old February 16, 2013, 12:04 AM   #153
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It sorta angered me to see people comparing Dorner to Rambo and "First Blood".

Maybe MLeake can shed some more light on it, but didn't he just ride around on a RHIB making sure to repeats of the USS Cole happened in Bahrain?

That doesn't equate to him being the next Jason Bourne.

The hero worship for this sicko is more angering than the whitewash the media is putting out concerning the lack of fire discipline of the LAPD.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:11 AM   #154
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Quote:
The hero worship for this sicko is more angering than the whitewash the media is putting out concerning the lack of fire discipline of the LAPD.
Agreed...One can argue the lack of discipline of the LAPD. The hero worship is something totally different. This man was a murderer. I am more concerned with those who have hero worship to this guy.
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Old February 16, 2013, 12:16 AM   #155
ClydeFrog
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Rambo...

Hey...
Rambo John J was a good guy with a gun.
+ in Morrell's novel: First Blood, COL Sam Trautman kills John Rambo. Stallone said many times, he asked for Rambo to live to show SE combat veterans they are not hopeless & can get help.

Dormer's not Boba Fett or some ACE/ISA/SAD type killing machine but he was adept at SERE & avoided being caught quickly.
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:01 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatioo View Post
The reward was contingent on conviction, I believe.
We shall see the result of the lawsuit. They would be fools to let one million dollars fly out the window over semantics.
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Old February 16, 2013, 04:46 AM   #157
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My take: if they knew for a certainty that no other persons were in the cabin then burning it down, even intentionally, at some point, was not an outrage.

I want there and haven't seen the timeline so I don't know what was a reasonable point in time to do so.

But from reading what is available so far I don't see anything that shows a certainty that he did not have a hostage. And if it isn't established the authorities knew it for certain than this is pretty outrageous.

The problem is, and this is born out by studies, that the cops, especially urban cops, see three classes of people. a) themselves as above the law, b) perpetrators; c) civilians/victims.

I don't care about Dornor. He is a murderer. But what is in the back of my head is that if this guy had killed four persons unrelated to the police, I think their response would have been less urgent. I think the possibility of collateral damage to a civilian hostage was thrown out the window by the cops because this guy had killed cops.
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Old February 16, 2013, 05:04 AM   #158
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SPEMack618, I can't say for a certainty what he did while deployed to Bahrain, but having worked at 5th Fleet HQ a decade ago, I can make a reasonably educated guess as to the upper limit of Rambo-ness he could have experienced.

He might have had some role with harbor security, but a mobilized Reserve O-3 would be in a primarily administrative function with them. They might occasionally let the LT ride around in a boat, once in a while.

He might have had some role with EOD, but again since that was not his specialty, he would have been administrative. They might have taken him on the occasional range day, if they liked him.

From what I read, he was qualified Expert in pistol, but only Marksman in rifle. That does not indicate high speed, low drag. I qualified Expert in rifle the first time the Navy let me shoot one, which was a decade into my career. Not many specialties get much rifle time in the Navy; those that do would all qualify higher than Marksman - or they really should.

I have also read a couple comments from unnamed LA law enforcement types that indicated Dorner had some aviation training. If so, that would imply that he had washed out of either Pilot or NFO training at some point; if that is so, he would likely have been administratively separated due to over-manning, and thus entered into Reserve status as an unspecialized line officer.

Back when the budget could support it, a lot of aviation wash-outs would get sent out to aircraft carriers to be admin/clerk types in Air Operations. Students that couldn't handle some aspect of aviation training, but who worked hard and earned the respect of their instructors, would sometimes get better billets - we sent one that I recall off to Intel school, where he thrived; another went to SWOS. Most just ended up unspecialized and, career-wise, dead in the water.

Of course, I am just speculating based on limited information in news articles, and the implications of what little was said.
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Old February 16, 2013, 03:31 PM   #159
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There was a picture of him floating around in a poopy suit while still an 0-1, and it looked liked he was perched on a Trojan. No insignia on his name tag, niether.

Further more, I haven't read anything to indicate that he had the Combat Action Ribbon.

I've always thought it was funny how the media glorifies any sort of military marksmanship badge as if it is a Distinguished Rifleman's badge.

the DC Snipers, Dorner, Lee Harvey Oswald, McVeigh were all lauded as superb marksman, regardless of thier awards.
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Old February 16, 2013, 11:16 PM   #160
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American Terrorist....

I disagree with the point about McVeigh.
He was a "excellent" soldier. He earned a Bronze Star in Desert Storm, won a BN Soldier of the Month contest so many times, the unit's Sgt Major ended the program, was a E-5/SGT, and he took the US Army selection & assessment course for SF(special forces). To my knowledge, McVeigh was not trained at the US Army Sniper School in Fort Benning GA or had any covert ops/spec ops skills.
His background & military service are explained in American Terrorist.
I'm not writing this message to support Timothy McVeigh or praise him, I just want an honest, open account of who he really was, not the myths/rumors/lies.

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Old February 17, 2013, 10:00 AM   #161
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Well, this whole last page has gone on with barely passing mention of firearms. While it has been civil, it has largely been a rehash of law enforcement history, tactics, and military careers. Given the volatile nature of some of the topics covered, I think this one has been remarkably civil. Nonetheless, I also think that it has run its course.
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