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Old February 11, 2013, 12:44 PM   #51
tmorone
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ScottRiqui-

I use a trust for all my NFA stuff, and there is still a background check. You are correct in thinking that all the trust does is let you skip the CLEO sign off and fingerprint part (usually for those of us that the CLEO won't sign).

The process is:
1. Get your trust
2. Go to gun store and purchase NFA item
3. Store either gives you the Form 4 at that point to mail to BATFE, or you give the store a $200 check and they mail it all for you. Either way, a packet of your paperwork gets sent to the BATFE and the only thing you "walk away" with that day is a reciept.
4. Wait 6 months(approx). During this time the NFA item WILL NOT leave the dealer.
5. BATFE finishes processing the Form 4 and mails it to dealer. Dealer calls you and says come pick it up.
6. Go to gun store, they'll give you the background check form the same as if you were purchasing a firearm. After all, the government calls silencers Title II weapons- which are regarded as firearms. Once that NICS check clears, they'll hand over the Form 4 complete with stamp and the NFA item.

Hope that helps. A little long, but I tried to break it down into an easy-to-follow process. Interesting though, I had no idea he was using a silencer/suppressor.
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Old February 11, 2013, 12:52 PM   #52
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Thanks so much - that clears up a lot. So what's going on during the ~6 months that the ATF has your Form 4? Is there any kind of background check being performed, or are they just shuffling around paper?
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Old February 11, 2013, 12:54 PM   #53
Glenn E. Meyer
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It is suggested that because he was fired that he shouldn't have been able to own guns:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2714385.column

This speaks to the thought police. The author feels that since he was police and fired for making a charge that wasn't supported - he should have been identified as a dangerous rogue. He also demonstrated some aftereffects of his service.

Thus, he was disqualified to own guns in the authors view. The article also speaks to differential standards for federal disqualification based on criminal behavior vs. that of California.

The nuance is that he was police? If he had shown the same signs and gotten fired from a company - seize firearms.

Of course, we have no sympathy for him but the suggestion that we had enough info to predict what would happen years later is not supported and leads to the Psychological or Psychiatric thought police.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #54
tmorone
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Scottriqui-

What I've been told by a few dealers is that it's more administrative filing on their end. They don't actually ever do a background check of the individual.

The whole time it just sits on the shelf at the dealer, although some dealers will allow "conjugal visits" where you can shoot it if there's a range on-site. But they'll take your ID while you're using it.

The only background check that's ever been done on me for NFA stuff is when I actually go to pick it up. Again, from what I've been told by guys that do transfers for me is that the BATFE and NICS are two totally different animals.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:05 PM   #55
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Quote:
...the suggestion that we had enough info to predict what would happen years later is not supported and leads to the Psychological or Psychiatric thought police.
Agreed. "Hindsight is always 20/20", as they say. But the people who claim that "we should have seen this coming" are ignoring the fact that for every shooter, there are thousands of other men who have similar backgrounds and experiences, and they *didn't* become homicidal lunatics.

If these same people had to predict *beforehand* who the violent crazies would be, I suspect their accuracy would be pretty poor.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:11 PM   #56
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Called Hindsight bias in the trade, nowadays. Everyone knew it, blah, blah.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Again, from what I've been told by guys that do transfers for me is that the BATFE and NICS are two totally different animals.
The NICS system is run by the FBI, which is a different agency than the BATFE.
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Old February 11, 2013, 01:58 PM   #58
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So the background investigation for buying NFA gear isn't any different from buying a "regular" firearm, and the months-long waiting period is just a paperwork/admin drill?

Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 11, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old February 11, 2013, 02:50 PM   #59
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Thats correct
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Old February 11, 2013, 04:33 PM   #60
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The AWB Has a New Supporter

He is big and in the news. A former cop and military officer too.

Jordan Dorner claims that he would not have gone on his murderous rampage if an AWB had been in place. Stunning really when you consider his crimes.


Might want to skip down to pages 10-11. While the ravings of an obssesed lunatic this point is getting absolutely no coverage. Although it does answer one question I have wondered about the murderers so far as their position on gun control. We will put him well into the anti camp.

http://documents.latimes.com/christo...ner-manifesto/

Quote:
If you had a well written AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives.
Thousands of more words at the link. Throws support behind Feinstein and Christie too (and lots of others).
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Old February 11, 2013, 04:38 PM   #61
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Mr. Dorner's activities are already under discussion: Christopher Dorner is only ONE man.

Merged.
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Old February 11, 2013, 04:51 PM   #62
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Another thing I've noticed, he claims to have a .50 caliber rifle of some sort, thus negating the armor of the LAPD.

I thought those were illegal in CA?
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Old February 11, 2013, 05:30 PM   #63
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Only illegal for civilians to purchase a .50 BMG

And what weapons has Dorner used that would have been banned under a new AWB?
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Old February 11, 2013, 08:13 PM   #64
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So he stole a .50 from a police armory? Or was issued one?
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Old February 11, 2013, 08:24 PM   #65
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This is an interesting read for 'The Police will protect us' proponents. I just had to share since it shows the difference between policing, which is keeping the peace, and protecting, which is a security detail.
PD even had it's press conference in a bunker area of the station.

"More than 40 protection details were assigned to possible targets of Dorner. Police spokesman Cmdr. Andrew Smith said he couldn’t remember a larger manhunt by the department."
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...hing-two-cops/
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Old February 11, 2013, 09:00 PM   #66
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I wonder how many personnel, total, are assigned just to these protection details. I'm generally not a betting man, but I rather suspect that the LAPD is putting a lot more energy and resources into protecting their own than they ever put into protecting even material witnesses in so-called "protective" custody.
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Old February 11, 2013, 09:40 PM   #67
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This may be a hoax, but Feinstein and Boxer are allegedly calling for civilians and LE to lay down their weapons, and give Dorner a chance to turn himself in: http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/

(cue laughter)
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Old February 11, 2013, 10:30 PM   #68
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Quote:
I wonder how many personnel, total, are assigned just to these protection details. I'm generally not a betting man, but I rather suspect that the LAPD is putting a lot more energy and resources into protecting their own than they ever put into protecting even material witnesses in so-called "protective" custody.

This part bugs me. The LAPD has a history of refusing to protect witnesses in impending murder trials. Several material witnesses have been murdered after being refused protection by the LAPD.

http://www.prlog.org/11679102-witnes...n-program.html
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Old February 11, 2013, 11:57 PM   #69
Dr Big Bird PhD
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Quote:
This may be a hoax, but Feinstein and Boxer are allegedly calling for civilians and LE to lay down their weapons, and give Dorner a chance to turn himself in: http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/

(cue laughter)
I'd say it's probably not true, BUT the really sad part is that I would believe they would say such a thing regardless.
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Old February 12, 2013, 12:29 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorone View Post
Anyone see the thing about Feinstein asking for EVERYONE (civilians and LE) to lay down their weapons, because if they do he will stop and turn himself in- "human nature" I believe was the term used.
That was a satire article, and not a particularly good one. Always check your sources.
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:36 AM   #71
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Given the facts of the illegal activities (including murder) Dorner is doing, kinda makes it redundant as to the gun laws that now exist or may exist in the future. Somehow it seems that Dorner(or anyone else in his mindset) cares little about the BATFE , NICS or any other laws.

Would seem to me that with Dorner's expertise and training with the LAPD that he would know exactly how he could safely give himself up and that that invitation is always there....

....but in case he doesn't....Thank You, Feinstein and Boxer for that wonderful, can't we all just get along, brainstorm of fantasy.
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Old February 12, 2013, 11:58 AM   #72
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I would think he is in Mexico by now . I have no clue how this would happen 2 woman , 160lbs light skinned in a blue Toyota were mistaken for this guy .
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...new-truck.html
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Old February 12, 2013, 12:45 PM   #73
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Quote:
I have no clue how this would happen 2 woman , 160lbs light skinned in a blue Toyota were mistaken for this guy .
I'm beginning to become so cynical that I have no idea how the news media let the report get out about the victims. Why wasn't it suppressed? I really hate to admit that.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; February 12, 2013 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Removed unnecessary snark
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Old February 12, 2013, 02:43 PM   #74
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You would have thought that they do a media black out ... if the woman would have died they could have planted a weapon ... LOL
30 rounds plus and seven cops and no one hit there target .
I want to see the in car video ... LOL
They had news report that average Joe who looked like the shooter Dorner are wearing shirts that say I am not the shooter .

Last edited by Greguw; February 12, 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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Old February 12, 2013, 04:45 PM   #75
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Just had a brief news update by Associated Press that police have exchanged gunfire with Dorner up in the San Bernardino Mts. Apparently Dorner broke into a cabin occupied by a couple, tied them up to steal their auto.

No further details yet. Supposed to be an update @ 5 pm EST.

Last edited by shortwave; February 12, 2013 at 04:54 PM.
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