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Old March 28, 2013, 10:12 AM   #1
motorhead0922
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Sandy Hook search warrant info released

Stephen J. Sedensky III has released the police findings of the Sandy Hook investigation. Lots of info here:

http://www.registercitizen.com/artic...mode=fullstory

Excerpt:
Quote:
"On the morning of December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza, the shooter, age 20, of 36 Yogananda St., Newtown, shot his mother, Nancy Lanza, age 52, in her bed with a .22 caliber rifle. There was no indication of a struggle.

Later the shooter went to Sandy Hook Elementary school where he shot his way into the building and killed 20 children and 6 adults with a Bushmaster .223 caliber model XM15 rifle. The Bushmaster was loaded with a 30-round capacity magazine. Fourteen rounds were in the magazine when the Bushmaster was recovered by police. There was one round in the chamber.

The shooter took his own life with a single shot from a Glock 10 mm handgun. He also had a loaded 9mm Sig Sauer P226 handgun on his person. Recovered from the person of the shooter, in addition to more ammunition for the handguns, were three, 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster, each containing 30 rounds. Located in the area of the shootings were six additional 30-round magazines containing 0, 0, 0, 10, 11, and 13 live rounds respectively. One-hundred-and-fifty-four spent .223 casings were recovered from the scene.

It is currently estimated that the time from when the shooter shot his way into the school until he took his own life was less than five minutes.
Lots to digest. I haven't had time to go through it all yet.
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:31 AM   #2
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Another story;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/28...est=latestnews
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:35 AM   #3
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Closed. Please see the "Conn. School shooting." sticky at the top of the General Discussion page. It's good that accurate information is finally coming out, but for now, we're still not discussing this.

Edit: I can't resist adding the following, from the Fox News article linked above, as an example of the ability of news media to get things wrong:
Quote:
A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds.
(My emphasis.)
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Last edited by Vanya; March 28, 2013 at 10:44 AM.
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Old March 28, 2013, 05:52 PM   #4
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After a discussion among staff, we've decided to reopen this thread.

Before you post, please read the sticky titled "Staff announcement re: Sandy Hook shooting."
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Old March 28, 2013, 05:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
A loaded 12-gauge shotgun was found in the glove compartment of the Honda Civic Lanza drove to the school with two magazines containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12-gauge shotgun rounds.
Emphasis added - that whole sentence is pretty much "out to lunch".

There are some other inaccuracies in the reports as well. An Enfield rifle seized at the house is described as a ".323 caliber", when it's probably a .303. Also, there was a check from Lanza's mother written to Adam, with a notation in the memo line that it was for the purchase of a "C183" firearm. I suspect that the police just couldn't read her writing, and that it actually read "CZ83"
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Old March 28, 2013, 06:13 PM   #6
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You're right, Scott. I was so taken aback by the idea of a 12 gauge in a glove compartment that I completely missed that.
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Old March 28, 2013, 06:45 PM   #7
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Scott and I were trying to figure out how a 12GA Saiga could fit 70 rounds into just three mags when he pointed out that the shotgun was in the glove compartment.

I felt like slapping my forhead for missing that



.... I started looking into the magazines, counting rounds, etc ... But as I think on it, I no longer have an interest. What a terribly sad thing that boy did.

All the more shame on the President and Congress for turning it into a show.
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Old March 28, 2013, 07:02 PM   #8
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I think there were total of ten loaded 30-round magazines for the AR at the beginning of the shooting.

If NY is going to start tracking ammo purchases under the SAFE Act, will a 300-round purchase be considered "suspicious"? And how will the police investigate "suspicious" purchases, if at all? If the purchase is legal, it's legal - I don't think that it would be enough for the police to get a warrant to search the buyer's house, or even compel him to participate in an interview.
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Old March 28, 2013, 07:52 PM   #9
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From the registeredcitizen article:

" ...and a holiday card from his mother with a check made out to Adam for the purchase of a C183 firearm."

CNN also reported the same thing, probably from the same source. I didn't know what a c183 was so I googled it, and the only thing I could find was a c183 Kodak camera. CNN could've done the same thing I did, but correct information must not fit their agenda.
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Old March 28, 2013, 07:55 PM   #10
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Right now, I think everyone is rushing to report the contents of the just-released warrant documents and resulting inventories, right or wrong. The "C183" and the "two magazines containing 70 rounds of 12-gauge ammo" are straight from the police documents.

The fact-checking should have been done first, but hopefully it won't be long.

Quote:
correct information must not fit their agenda.
The end result is the same - Lanza's mother gave her 20-year old son money to buy a firearm. The fact that the news outlets are thus far calling it a "C183" instead of a CZ83 doesn't change anything. In fact, the correct information could have even been "better" for an anti-gun agenda, since a "C183" can be any type of firearm, but a CZ83 is a pistol, which I don't believe Adam could have legally purchased.
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Old March 28, 2013, 08:22 PM   #11
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The search warrants, with the returns, are available here as PDF files, in case anyone wants to read them.
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Old March 28, 2013, 09:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
It is currently estimated that the time from when the shooter shot his way into the school until he took his own life was less than five minutes.
This is the point we can expect the gun-control lobby to hammer.

They will claim that the semiautomatic operation and large-capacity magazines allow X amount of carnage in X amount of minutes. While an AWB is pretty much off the table, expect them to use this to argue for restrictions on magazine capacity. It may very well sway a few Senators and Representatives.
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
They will claim that the semiautomatic operation and large-capacity magazines allow X amount of carnage in X amount of minutes. While an AWB is pretty much off the table, expect them to use this to argue for restrictions on magazine capacity. It may very well sway a few Senators and Representatives.
I would think that this could easily be refuted. Has there been anyone with any clout do a real world demonstration on video with firearms using smaller magazines or revolvers even. Everyone here knows that 150+ rounds fired in 5 minutes is easily done with any modern firearm.
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
I would think that this could easily be refuted. Has there been anyone with any clout do a real world demonstration on video with firearms using smaller magazines or revolvers even. Everyone here knows that 150+ rounds fired in 5 minutes is easily done with any modern firearm.
It might be hard to refute effectively. No matter how quickly you can change magazines, only having to change them a third as often is going to be an advantage, unless the larger magazine introduces feeding problems, as was the case with the Aurora shooter.
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Everyone here knows that 150+ rounds fired in 5 minutes is easily done with any modern firearm.
No argument there, but would such a demonstration help? I'm not sure.
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Old March 28, 2013, 10:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
No argument there, but would such a demonstration help? I'm not sure.
You may be right. It could backfire and have them wanting to ban everything but single shot firearms.

I guess it's difficult to carry on a reasonable dialogue with folks on the other side of the fence that are unreasonable and unwilling to listen to facts.
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Old March 29, 2013, 05:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
You may be right. It could backfire and have them wanting to ban everything but single shot firearms.
That was proposed by one Connecticut lawmaker, and I believe that bill is technically still alive and pending in the CT legislature.
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Old March 29, 2013, 06:28 AM   #18
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Point which Tom Servo (correctly) believes will be used to support mag capacity restrictions:
Quote:
It is currently estimated that the time from when the shooter shot his way into the school until he took his own life was less than five minutes.
Counterpoint:
What's the average response time for police? Four minutes? So we see just how much damage a "bad guy with a gun" can do in just under five. That's why law abiding citizens need thirty-round magazines.
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Last edited by Spats McGee; March 29, 2013 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Punctuation
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Old March 29, 2013, 07:20 AM   #19
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There is a proposed bill since Dec 2012 pushing for one shot only
on the floor already here in Connecticut.. CT SB1076 has been temp. shelved, but "IT ISN"T OVER YET" by a long shot

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Old March 29, 2013, 09:03 AM   #20
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Just a thought... we have many, many threads on proposed and recently enacted anti-gun legislation. Let's not turn this into yet another one.
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:28 AM   #21
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On the magazines & 70 rounds, one of the warrant returns does in fact list one shotgun with 2 magazines, containing 70 rounds of Winchester 12 ga ammunition. A quick web search on "SAIGA 50 ROUND MAGAZINE," turned up several images of what appear to be 50 round drum magazines. I'm not in any way a Saiga expert, but this appears plausible.

Pursuant to ScottRiqui's correction, below, I was wrong. I have stricken the part which has been shown to be incorrect.
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Last edited by Spats McGee; March 29, 2013 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Correct information provided by another member
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:49 AM   #22
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I don't think anyone makes a 50-round Saiga drum *in 12-gauge*. That would be a beast, for sure.

You can get 50-round drums for a Saiga .308, though - those may have been the search results you were seeing.
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:56 AM   #23
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Whoops. I stand corrected. Perhaps I should read my search results more closely.

Thanks. Post above will be edited.
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Old March 29, 2013, 09:58 AM   #24
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No worries - I just hope that at some point we find out exactly what it is that the police were describing - I'm actually kinda curious now.
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Old March 29, 2013, 10:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Everyone here knows that 150+ rounds fired in 5 minutes is easily done with any modern firearm.

No argument there, but would such a demonstration help? I'm not sure.
I've started to wince when I'm watching the "gun shows" on Outdoor and Sportsman, and part of the demo of just about any semi-auto rifle is a mag dump, without showing the target or hits achieved, just a 30-shot string, as fast as the trigger can be pulled. A lot of people think hitting a target, any target, is easy, so firing 30 rounds in three seconds would certainly leave the impression that a lot of damage can be caused that way.
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