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Old February 7, 2013, 06:18 AM   #1
45Kimber
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Effectiveness of 32 acp (7.65 Browing)

Hy Guy, during an home invasion and consequent armed robbery, an Italian attorney fired five shot from his Beretta 32 acp (7.65 Browing) at an albanian gipsy.
The intruder was hit by 2 shots at chest, 2 shots at stomach and one shot at lower abdomen, tetein them in his body .
Although he was still capable of shooting 2 shots of Beretta 9x21 at attorney, fortunatly without consequence.
State Police don't investigate home defender for obvious self defence cause.
Felon still alive and is at a local hospital waiting for surgical intervention.
I think attorney will change his hundgun for a more effective caliber!
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Old February 7, 2013, 06:34 AM   #2
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This can happen with any caliber, plenty of people have been killed by a single .22, others have taken multiple hits of .357 mag and survived. All other things equal, heavier and faster moving bullets are better for stopping a threat.

I thought I recalled that certain "military" calibers such as 9mm cannot be owned by civilians in Italy, but may be wrong about that.
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Old February 7, 2013, 06:46 AM   #3
JL Wesson
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Hello,
I can confirm being an Italian citizen that we are not allowed any semi-auto in 9x19 (9mm parabelum) while we are allowed to have 9x21 IMI or 9 Short (.380ACP). Hollow point bullets are also forbidden for self defense; only FMJ are deemed acceptable for self defense.
Any other caliber is allowed up to .50BMG (which is not allowed and represent the upper limit of small arms caliber for us).

Can you give some reference for this story? I would like to know more of it.

JL
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Old February 7, 2013, 08:17 AM   #4
45Kimber
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http://www.cronacamilano.it/cronaca/...colpevole.html
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Old February 7, 2013, 12:39 PM   #5
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So, 7.65 mm isn't a wooly Mammoth gun...

I think we mostly knew that.

The question is, based on what is available - either logistics or legislation - one makes the best selection allowed and acts accordingly.

In my collection, I have two Beretta .32 ACP/7.65mm pistols. One is the well known 1935 (commercial) version and the other is an older design, the 1921 model (as I recall). They both shoot reliably and deliver shots to the point of aim. They are fairly easy to handle and control. Not a bad reputation, all in all.

The attorney may look about for a 'bigger' pistol; a decent .38 Special revolver might be a good choice (there are FMJ wadcutter rounds available in some parts of the world.) Or he may choose to opt for a fire axe in his next encounter. Based on the report, I suggest the gentleman with the 7.65 mm pistol do a bit more marksmanship training. The three shots in the stomach and lower abdomen are not highly recommended.

Still he won the engagement and good for him.
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Old February 7, 2013, 01:11 PM   #6
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Attorny 1, Felon 0. Proof that a 32 in the gut is better than a 9mm in the wall!
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Old February 7, 2013, 01:50 PM   #7
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I can only state that..

during WWII OSS agents chose to carry the Colt Model M in .32ACP over the .380 (9mmKurz). Main reason being the low recoil was more thought to be conductive to shot PLACEMENT (aka: accuracy).

The defender while exhibiting a "shotgun pattern" did stop further action and the felon appears to been fully "rattled" that his return firs missed.

The attorney prevailed and survived. Maybe upgrading to a 4" revolver, using
a caliber beginning with "4", might need to be considered.

Last edited by jrothWA; February 7, 2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: can't spell "can"
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Old February 7, 2013, 02:30 PM   #8
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The guy in the video below goes down pretty hard after a couple shots of 32 at close range......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4NkjcDfB_4
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Old February 7, 2013, 05:33 PM   #9
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While most of us "knowledgeable" (read:Macho Men) pistoleros would not choose a 32 ACP/7.65MM Browning as a first,second or even third choice, it beats fists,feet and foul language and a hit with one in a vital area hurts a lot more than a miss with a 45. And I suspect there are board members here who state they feel quite confident carrying a32 ACP with high performance ammo.
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Old February 7, 2013, 06:58 PM   #10
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Loved my P-32 when I had it. In fact, I'm in search of another.
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Old February 7, 2013, 08:43 PM   #11
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I sure wouldn't like a 7.65/.32 to the GROIN. The intruder was lucky he didn't get hit there on the first shot............
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Old February 7, 2013, 09:54 PM   #12
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Recall Andy Warhol was shot by a 32 cal round (stomach), he collapsed immediately and was expected to die, but a visiting Italian surgeon decided to try to save the celebrity, and after about 6 hours of surgery, Warhol survived, but never fully recovered.

I carry a 32ACP PPK (BUG), an accurate, quick shooter... sure wouldn't want to take a 32 slug thru the heart or brain...
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Old February 7, 2013, 10:03 PM   #13
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Jeff Cooper remarked in one of his "Commentaries" that Hans Rudel only carred .32 Mauser pistol. I'm guessing an HSc.

When Colonel Cooper questioned him about it, he remarked that by the time it came down to the pistol, caliber was largerly esoteric, or words to that effect.

Now granted, he was an attack pilot, so he did his fighting with a Ju-87, I've always found that comment telling.

Also, based on my limited readings concerning European police forces, for the most part they carried what we Americans would call "mouse guns" right up until the late 70s. The Munich Olympics being the deciding factor there.

Also, I've noticed that European police forces are much more willing to have foot patrol officers out and about with long arms, something we as Americans don't expect to see except in times of civl unrest.
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Old February 7, 2013, 11:35 PM   #14
Doc TH
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32 acp

Interesting video. That part of Brooklyn isn't the highest crime area; it is between Greenwood and Flatbush in the southern part of the borough...

Actually, it should all be very safe because it is so hard to legally puchase a handgun in NYC.
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Old February 7, 2013, 11:44 PM   #15
jason_iowa
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If I would not carry it into combat I would not use it for defensive carry or home defense.

32acp is not anywhere near making that list. Single shot 12g with any kind of buck shot would be more effective. No clue what Italys laws are on shotguns.
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Old February 8, 2013, 12:24 AM   #16
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I'd take a small semi-auto chambered in 25ACP or 32ACP over bare hands any day. Would I use it for home defense? Probably not, unless I didn't have anything else.
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Old February 8, 2013, 07:41 AM   #17
JasonJ
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You cant carry a 12g shotgun concealed... and its even harder in the summer in a pair of shorts and a light t-shirt..

and if you're like me, and because of multiple breaks to the hand and wrist, you are recoil sensitive, yet still need a deep concealment pistol, the 380s and uber tiny pocket 9mm's arent an option.

As they say, its better than nothing... but you still gotta aim the dang thing. 2-4 shots to the chest and 1 or 2 to the head if need be, and you're stopped as good as any 45acp is gonna do.
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Old February 8, 2013, 11:43 AM   #18
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The information from one shooting isn't enough to base any judgement. It's not enough from 10, or even 100. I've seen video of a perp wrestling with an LEO after a couple shots to the body with a .45acp. Seen footage of a Marine continuing to fight after being shot with a 7.62. Guess that means that .45acp and 7.62 are off my list.
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Old February 8, 2013, 04:22 PM   #19
cocojo
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Seems to me that the 32 acp did the job as stated above, attorney one felon zero. There are no magic bullets and many a felon have absorbed numerous round of all calibers. One case comes to mind with 13 hits of 45 acp and the perp was still fighting on. Obviously the 32 acp stopped the aggression. If the perp lives or dies, who cares, it's not the objective. Stopping their aggression is, and that was accomplished. I would say his gun works just fine.
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Old February 8, 2013, 05:09 PM   #20
Chettt
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Good shooting - 5 shots, 5 hits, 2 left in the gun and the bad guy taken out.
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Old February 9, 2013, 12:03 PM   #21
jackpine
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bottom line-- It's the will and the skill to fight and not the weapon at hand.
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Old February 9, 2013, 01:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
bottom line-- It's the will and the skill to fight and not the weapon at hand.
It is all variable. Will and skill mean nothing if you get shot through the spinal cord in the process, get ambushed and can't fight back, etc. Recent news events attest to this.

There is nothing wrong with having superior firepower if you know how to use it.

As for the OSS agents during WWII, they carried a variety of weapons. Some may have favored the .32 over the .380, but it was not a universal choice. Some carried 1911s, Hi Powers, or even Lugers. Some carried whatever was obtained locally.

You didn't see the .32 being made into the OSS "Bigot."
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/othe...-bigot-pistol/
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Old February 9, 2013, 02:17 PM   #23
Willie Sutton
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Bullet placement is everything.

Anyone want to play trivia for "the most number of people killed with a pistol by one man in the history of mankind" and cite the name of the man, the number of people he shot, the caliber, and the type of pistol?

I'll give it a day. The caliber will be a surprise.


Willie

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Old February 9, 2013, 02:34 PM   #24
MLeake
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Russian executioner, .25 blanks, can't remember his name but also don't think we should immortalize it anyway.
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Old February 9, 2013, 02:50 PM   #25
Willie Sutton
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^ not blanks,

Vasili Blokhin; Used basic .25 ACP ball ammo out of a box of Walther Model 2's.


Worked every time.

Well over 10,000 times by most estimates.

Documented to have personally shot 7000 men in 28 days when he was dealing with the Polish officer corps.


Nothing wrong with a .32 ACP, just hit the right spot.



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