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Old February 6, 2013, 11:29 AM   #26
Motor-T Marine
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ya . the 9mm is a no go . for sure the way the houses are built here in ohio its just plain irresponsible. here a picture of my "tactical" shotgun. posting it because ...why not .
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Old February 7, 2013, 12:41 AM   #27
KO3422
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00 buck for me. Although, I don't live in a house/complex with shared walls. I just want to make sure If I hit the bad guy, I 00 buck to welcome them.
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Old February 7, 2013, 01:17 AM   #28
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High-brass turkey loads are nothing to sneeze at.

Buckshot is available in 2 3/4" shells.
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Old February 7, 2013, 03:30 AM   #29
Dreaming100Straight
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The answer is there is no single answer. In some cases, even birdshot is the better choice. Keep in mind that not all birdshot is equal. This depends on your personal environment and home structure.

As for neighbors, depending on proximity they may not be a factor and especially if your home's extrior walls are brick or it is surrounded by block perimeter walls.

Often the penetration risk only concerns other occupants (chidren) of your house.

Most realize the risks attendant with failing to stop BG with the first shot, which can result from the use of a light load. When factoring in risks to other occupants of your home, consider the risk that they become victims should you fail to stop BG.

I opted for a graded load in my 12 gauge. My first round is loaded with super dense BBs, followed by three low recoil 00B, followed by a slug. That may not be the best load for others, but I like it. If I had to worry about my children's rooms being on the other side of the kill zone, I may opt for all BB loads.

As for those BB loads, I expect that they will penetrate two interior walls, but should that happen and an innocent be hit they will hopefully lack lethality. Remember, this is for home defense, which means close up and nasty. You may enjoy reading this http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/ .

The BB loads it tested were lead, but the Remington ulitmate home defense load I use is 10%denser than lead.
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Old February 7, 2013, 12:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Does anyone know of a 2 1/2" buckshot ?
You can get buckshot and slugs in 1 3/4" reduced recoil shells. Advantage is you get more shots and less recoil on the shooter which makes for quicker accurate follow up shots and still enough power to ruin a boogermans day.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/738...slug-box-of-20

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/255...shot-box-of-20

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-A28970
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Old February 7, 2013, 01:38 PM   #31
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The mini shells have never claimed to cycle reliably in any firearm without some modifications...

my understanding about these is that penetration or lack thereof was never a consideration... They were intended for riot control (I heard prison riot control was a main intention)... They only wanted more rounds in the mag... lethality of the round on the target or those around the target was not a worry...

So who here goes out and buys ammo of suspect reliability with the sole intention of loading them for home/self defense???

I would rather load high grade #9 birdshot in my gun then suspect 00 buck...

Brent
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Old February 7, 2013, 02:02 PM   #32
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Those Anguilla or whatever they are called seem to short to feed but 2/12 would feed fine and .25 x5 + the extra room in the tube. would probably add 2 shots. That's where my motivation for this whole thing started. Maybe. I'll just jeep a sack of nickels bedside. Or go hand to hand with an ice skate.
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Old February 7, 2013, 02:06 PM   #33
hogdogs
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I think the feed issues with the mini shells was that they could get all "catty-whompus" in the receiver where a 2.5 would not likely...

The only person I know who uses the mini shells loads reliably and consistantly puts one in a $20.00 rusty single shot to "poke" deer out of his garden... at night...

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Old February 7, 2013, 05:41 PM   #34
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Those mini slugs seem interesting. Load one at a time just for busting up pickle jars. Now I'm no reloader. And if im talking crazy please don't spare my feelings. But what says I buy a few boxes of those 2.5" # 6 loads cut em open and fill em with #4 buck.
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Old February 7, 2013, 06:56 PM   #35
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Depends on the gun, some shoot them just fine and others take some modifications. My Mossberg 500 C shoots them with out any hiccups.
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Old February 7, 2013, 07:24 PM   #36
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My choice is 00 buck in my 18" Mossberg Mariner
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Old February 8, 2013, 06:44 PM   #37
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A twist on the thread

... Ideal is Buckshot but in todays post Obama panic, I got a sweet 20Ga double but ammo is the problem!
The only loads available were 7 1/2 2 3/4" 20ga so it will have to do untill I can get better stuff.
Just the same I am using my 2" .38 for HD with a shotgun back-up till I can buy some Buckshot.
Largest birdshot the better if all I can get is Birdshot, right?
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Old February 9, 2013, 12:18 AM   #38
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And the hot air debate continues, and continues, and continues

I see lots of opinions, but no data....

How many of the birds that "hit thr ground alive" were shot at less than 20 feet? How many were decent hits in the first place? How many posters have paterned their shotgun with any of the loads being discussed? Paterned them at realistic HD distances?? How many posters have fired any of the loads being discussed against two layers of ordinary wallboard spaced 3.75" apart positioned at a realistic HD distance from the gun?
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Old February 9, 2013, 12:39 AM   #39
JimmyR
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A solution

Ok, how about this for a solution (one that I will probably be putting to use for my own shotgun:

Load your tube with buck shot (in my case, 20 ga #4 buckshot). However, load the last shell/chambered shell in birdshot of your preference. That way, if the first round disables him, you have no worries, and if you need more than one shot, then you have serious stuff backing it up.

Internet assassins, commence!
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Old February 9, 2013, 02:40 AM   #40
jason_iowa
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No. bird shot should ever be used for anything but birds and small game unless you have absolutely no other choice.

#4 BUCK shot is the minimum you should use for home defense. I don't think you could find a handful of cases of over penetration being an issue in any home defense situation with any kind of buck shot. With a little planning it should not even be a consideration.
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Old February 9, 2013, 02:46 AM   #41
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#4 Buck should be fine. If worried about that, I'd look at a magnum hevishot goose load - T shot or BB. At 1500 fps + they will do a number on a person at short range, but lose energy quickly on hard surfaces.
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Old February 9, 2013, 11:50 AM   #42
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bird shot is for birds!! If the attacker is worth shooting then shoot to stop them and thats going to take #4 buck shot or larger.
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Old February 12, 2013, 12:09 AM   #43
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Shelves are bare of bigger shot!

The biggest 20 GA I could find (the only 20ga) was 7 1/2 hey all had a couple boxes of it but everything else is on backorder!
One gun shop had the balls to try to get $26.99 for a box of low brass 7 1/2's!
Honest, this panic is a crime!
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Old February 12, 2013, 03:29 PM   #44
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2 words
BUCK SHOT!!!!! it should not penetrate to deep. If I'm shooting at some one in my home I'm shooting to seriously injure them not pee them off
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Old February 12, 2013, 06:43 PM   #45
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The great thing about a shotgun is how fast it can be adapted to your need. For example, I keep the magazine of my scattergun stoked with #4 buck. However, in the little elastic butt cuff, I've got 3 rounds of 000 buck and 3 rifled slugs. I also have my magazine loaded so that I have room for 1 extra round, which can come straight from the cuff. Within about 2 seconds of picking the shotgun up, I can have any one of those 3 loads chambered. Conditions can vary, don't limit your options.
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:26 AM   #46
Carne Frio
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Here is a practical demonstration comparing buckshot to birdshot:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
One conclusion was that birdshot is for the birds.
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Old February 13, 2013, 02:07 PM   #47
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So much for birdshot as a self defense choice.
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Old February 13, 2013, 04:37 PM   #48
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Do yourself a favor and open up a #6 shell to see the actual size of the pellets. They are pretty darn small. Unless you are really shooting someone at point blank range, the pellets will act seperately. Some of you guys are asking for statistical data on how many birds hit the ground still alive. Who really cares? The thickness of the average human is MUCH thicker than that of anything short of an ostrich. I'm sure bird shot to the face will be a very nasty deterrent (especially if it blinds the attacker), but the head is a much smaller target than the body. My home defense shotgun will be for hunkering down in the bedroom while the pistol will between rooms. Once the family is hunkered down in the master bedroom, anyone coming through the door will not be a happy camper. I live in South Florida so hurricane code dictates that our houses be built to withstand big bad wolves. I can easily shoot 00 buck without endangering anyone outside my home.
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Old February 14, 2013, 02:52 AM   #49
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Go to a thrift shop or salvation army store and pick up a heavy leather jacket, a sweatshirt and a t-shirt. Wrap these around a plastic gallon jug of water in the order you would normally wear them. Step off ten paces and shoot at it from that distance, with #6 birdshot. This would represent a probably home invader in Ohio in winter.

I think you will be underwhelmed with the results.

If you are super worried about over penetration, find some of those rubber ball or bean bag specialty shotshells. I'd load up 2 rounds followed by a bunch of #4 Buck. Then practice 2 VERY quick shots with a short pause to evaluate the situation before you follow up with 2 VERY quick shots of Buck.

As said, the minimum acceptible standard for self defense is #4 Buck. In leiu of that, I might be persueded to drop to T, BBB or BB, but only as a stop gap measure.
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:41 AM   #50
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I'll echo what many have already said; "Bird shot is for birds!"

I have seen lots of data with pictures showing differences in buckshot vs birdshot on human tissue. One trauma nurse wrote an entire article on various gunshot wounds (I clicked through to it via this forum, does anyone remember what I'm talking about??) and he said conclusively, in his experience, that buckshot is preferred to get the job done. While bird shot wounds look ghastly, they are usually only that and suffer from severe under penetration, never hitting any vital structures. It will certainly make cheeseburger out of someone's face, but I don't believe that would be your first target anyway. Your instinct, hopefully, will be a hit to the center mass and 00 will take care of your problem rather quickly. I would bet that most bird shot victims end up in ER and not the morgue.

EDIT- Use what you have on deck. It's better than nothing. However, I really never understood the mixing of ammunition and not just straight loading the tube with 00. It is readily available and cheap. What's the deal?? Are people just trying to be different? Hmmm...
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