The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 5, 2013, 11:46 AM   #1
Motor-T Marine
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Posts: 26
#6 shot for home defense ?

Hello folks new here. I'm a newbie on shotguns. My question is about balancing over penetration(or lack of) and stopping power. Also being able to fit an extra shell in my mossberg 500 magazine so here's the load I'm thinking

B&P 2 1/2" high pheasant 6shot.

I live in Ohio thin walls neighbors house is about 30 feet from mine. Am I way off here. ? Figure #4buck in the side saddle just incase ...thoughts please ?
Motor-T Marine is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 11:49 AM   #2
Babyfacenelson
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 42
6 shot should get it done fine.
Personally i like 4 shot better for home defense.
More power, but not so much as to have to worry about over penetration.
If you feel safer with 6 shot then by all means, load your gun with 6 shot.
Babyfacenelson is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 11:49 AM   #3
Chief Brody
Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2012
Posts: 47
Popular opinion is that while no one wants to get hit with birdshot...leave the birdshot for shooting birds. If you're going to fire a gun at somebody to save your life, make sure the load will stop them. #4B, #1B, or 00B is the way to go.
Chief Brody is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 11:55 AM   #4
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Over penetration risk is best mitigated with a solid hit into a squishy torso... Slows them buck shot pellets right down...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:00 PM   #5
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 222
I'm not a buckshot expert, but I've shot a lot of birds with high-brass 5's and 6's. Enough of those pheasants hit the ground ALIVE, that I wouldn't trust it for home defense. I'd prefer the buck shot.

I know every now and then I have to wring a bird's neck. I would hate to have to do that to a person....

bird_dog is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:06 PM   #6
Motor-T Marine
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Posts: 26
These live birds , how high or far from the muzzle were they? Because "bad guy" will be no more than 15 feet
Motor-T Marine is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:09 PM   #7
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 222
The birds are typically 15-40 yards, granted.

I know that shooting someone at HD ranges is different, but my gut-instinct tells me that it's not a great idea.

As I said in my post, I'm not an expert, but I've shot a lot of birds. The bigger the shot, the harder they fall. I'm assuming that's the case, no matter the range or the recipient of the lead.

Just by your original post, you're admitting that they don't penetrate like buckshot. Hard to argue that, whether it's the bad guy or the wall, you're not going to get optimal penetration.
bird_dog is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:13 PM   #8
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Motor, if you fail to get a CNS shot, you may not get the chance at a second shot... And at the proximity to neighbors you cite... You cannot count out the risk of deadly or serious injury threats of over penetration with bird shot either...

Remember, at most home defense distance, there is a chance the shot payload will still be snug as a bug in the wad so the first layer of wall will slow it down no more than a slug in the same wall...

Over penetration is the shooter's responsibility but under penetration is just as serious...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:31 PM   #9
Motor-T Marine
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Posts: 26
I suppose I'll buy a box and just load one in the place another 2-3/4 won't fit. This way if the first round won't do it there's 5 #4buck in the tube to finish the job . I really wish there was a 2-1/2 buckshot
Motor-T Marine is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 12:39 PM   #10
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
I use 20 gauge so i am stuck with #3 buck... I always have the mindset that I will cycle round number 2 and plan for double tap speed on followup if target is still upright...

While not terribly so, i do feel i am a bit under gunned compared to the 12 gauge with 00...

Currently, i am slap out of buck so both the 500 and the Steven's SXS are harboring slugs... Glad I practiced a bunch with them in the past....

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 02:28 PM   #11
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
2 1/2" #6 would make me feel underpowered even at close up and personal distance and I would rather see a minimum of 2 3/4" #4 shot instead. Save the 2 1/2" stuff for practice loads. That should still give you some protection against wall penetration while ruining the day of a hostile boogerman who is to close and to personal.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 02:41 PM   #12
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,160
Use buckshot for home defense. It is already designed to limit pentration. Birdshot may well work, but it may not and there is no reason to not choose buckshot. There is absolutely no downside. Even buckshot fails far more often than many want to admit.

Under perfect conditions any load from a shotgun is going to be a serious threat, but once stuff starts hitting the fan you cannot count on perfect conditions. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Planning on #6 shot working is really hoping for the best.

An intruder wearing heavy winter clothing, or a leather jacket could easliy soak up a load of birdshot at fairly close range and only get a few pellets to penerate the skin. None to any vitals.
jmr40 is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 02:58 PM   #13
jmortimer
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
How many time has this been discussed? Birdshot blows, don't use it for self-defense. #4 buckshot is the minimum.
jmortimer is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 05:41 PM   #14
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
Quote:
How many time has this been discussed? Birdshot blows, don't use it for self-defense. #4 buckshot is the minimum.
You forgot to add 10 gauge 3 1/2" shells 12 pellet 2 1/4 oz loads good for 250 yards. Then if you miss the boogerman you can ventilate the next two neighbors apartments instead of just one.

Or he can use what he is comfortable shooting and hope that the boogerman doesn't want to get shot with any shot shell.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old February 5, 2013, 08:41 PM   #15
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,295
I have 00 buckshot and feel safe with it. There is only myself and my wife in the house and I know where she will be so there is no risk of over penetration hitting her..
rebs is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 06:15 AM   #16
plateshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 1999
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 522
Just my opinion. I think people way over think this stuff. For self protection, anything that will shoot out of your shotgun to the attackers face will stop the attack.

Who cares if he is dead or not.
__________________
Make a hole
plateshooter is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 07:14 AM   #17
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 222
Quote:
Just my opinion. I think people way over think this stuff. For self protection, anything that will shoot out of your shotgun to the attackers face will stop the attack.

Who cares if he is dead or not.
I think you might be UNDER thinking it a bit. Anything that can hit someone in the face will stop the attack? I've been hit in the face with #6 bird shot. It didn't even stop me from enjoying my day....
bird_dog is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 07:36 AM   #18
plateshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 1999
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 522
Was someone aiming at your face from across the room distance?

People can always come up with arguments to support their already conceived ideas. Myself included. Do what makes you happy, and I hope you never have to be in a situation where it comes to pass.

I find that most of these threads just turn into peeing contests after a few posts. I still let myself get sucked into them
__________________
Make a hole
plateshooter is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 08:56 AM   #19
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
The face is a super small target to aim for during a very dynamic situation...

At home defense distance it will look like you are trying to hit a moving golf ball with a dart...

Have you ever forced your body into a state of high stress then tried to hit a melon swinging melon on a piece of paracord?

For me the torso is small enough to worry about...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:07 AM   #20
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 222
Quote:
Was someone aiming at your face from across the room distance?

People can always come up with arguments to support their already conceived ideas. Myself included. Do what makes you happy, and I hope you never have to be in a situation where it comes to pass.

I find that most of these threads just turn into peeing contests after a few posts. I still let myself get sucked into them
No, no peeing contest here. Not at all. Just sharing ideas and experiences, as it should be.

I got hit from about 30 yards, which is not home defense distance. There's a reason, though, that buckshot has become the standard for home defense. Had I been shot at 30 yards with buckshot, I'd either be dead or facing some serious rehab and reconstructive surgery. With #6, all I had to do was pick 2pellets out of my cheek which were thankfully filtered through a hedgerow from which the other bird hunter shot.

I think this is a valid thread, with good points made by all.
bird_dog is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:25 AM   #21
plateshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 1999
Location: N.E. Ohio
Posts: 522
Hey Bird Dog, I am glad you were not seriously hurt. I had a couple close calls a few times in my rabbit and bird hunting days, not by my hunting buddies but from others hunting on public land.

I've used my shotguns in IDPA and action shoots, and at what I consider self defense ranges, I am comfortable with what I use.

Others experiences will vary. I am glad we live in America, land of the sort of free.
__________________
Make a hole
plateshooter is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:55 AM   #22
Motor-T Marine
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Posts: 26
This is more about over penetration. I'd be comfy with my browning hi power 9mm. I just don't want to send lead into my neighbors kitchen while they're grabbing a late night snack. I think Im going to have to build some little wall sections and go shoot at them with different loads to see what happens.
Motor-T Marine is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 10:56 AM   #23
Motor-T Marine
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2013
Posts: 26
Does anyone know of a 2 1/2" buckshot ?
Motor-T Marine is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 11:02 AM   #24
jmortimer
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
"This is more about over penetration. I'd be comfy with my browning hi power 9mm. I just don't want to send lead into my neighbors kitchen while they're grabbing a late night snack."

A miss with your "nine" will ruin your neighbor's day just as fast, if not faster, than some buckshot. Check out Box-O-Truth for penetration testing. Your best friend here is to memorize your lines of fire.
jmortimer is offline  
Old February 6, 2013, 11:08 AM   #25
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
It was this thread that finally got me off my butt to post the following...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515467

The first link posted by PetahW is what I was sort of after...

It may ease your mind while saving you T&M...

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12690 seconds with 8 queries