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Old February 3, 2013, 08:12 PM   #1
Southern Shooter
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9mm Carbine...Lighter or Heavier Bullet

I have a couple of 9mm carbines and a choice bullet weights to choose for them...115 grain and 147 grain...both in JHP. The majority of these bullets are the white box Winchester and Remington UMC.

My concern is over-driving the bullet...pushing it beyond velocities that it was designed for.

If you had to choose, which would you make as primary choice for a 9mm carbine and why?

Thanks
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Old February 4, 2013, 04:28 AM   #2
FALPhil
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Quote:
My concern is over-driving the bullet...pushing it beyond velocities that it was designed for.
That was good for a chuckle early in the morning.

What is the concern? That you are going to drive it so fast the bullets will disintegrate when they leave the barrel? Not likely to happen at 9mm velocities. That they will not penetrate/expand correctly in soft tissue? It's not like you are going to use this on big game. That the bullet will overstabilize and not be accurate out to 300 yards? Hey, this is a 9x19 we are talking about.

Methinks you are overanalyzing.
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Old February 4, 2013, 07:54 AM   #3
Mobuck
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I use UltraMax reman with 147 GoldDots in the carbines. Accuracy and performance are good enough for 100 yard use. I get a slight velocity gain with the 16" barrel but some reports say it doesn't make much difference. At 10-15 yards, the 147 GD bullet will expand to impressive diameter from the carbines.
Your comment about 300 yards is a stretch for 9mm. While I wouldn't want to be hit by a 9mm bullet even at 300 yards, I wouldn't depend on it's use for my medium range rifle.
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Old February 4, 2013, 08:11 AM   #4
Southern Shooter
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Overanalyzing?? No. A simple question. And, a simple, non-sarcastic response will do. Thank you. But, if you needed a chuckle to start off your day, I am glad to have been of assistance, FALPhil.

I don't have the personal knowledge. So, I asked here.

I fully understand that a 9mm carbine is a close range tool, geared for personal protection, maybe a small varmint or two, and plinking. If I want to reach out to a larger animal or situation, I have appropiate longguns to handle such.

My main concern is with a lighter weight JHP designed for a handgun from a longer barrel. Would they lose much weight after impact? Or, because of the velocity and, I assume, more expansion would they have decreased penetration?

Mobuck, thank you for your useful response.
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Last edited by Southern Shooter; February 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM.
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Old February 4, 2013, 08:14 AM   #5
bubbacrabb
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I would just shoot it. Unless you're handloading some stuff you shouldnt be you should be ok. I shoot everything out of my carbines. Cast, jacketed, plated etc and have no problems. I generally handload at the upper end of the data with XTP's and they do well. If you're just shooting factory loads I would just load your mags and shoot it.
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Old February 4, 2013, 09:36 PM   #6
oakfloor
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There's not enough powder in a 9X19 case to take advantage of a longer barrel, the pressure peak may be on the down side before the bullet leaves the muzzle, IMO
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Old February 4, 2013, 10:47 PM   #7
chris in va
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You'll get about another 150fps out of a carbine, if that. Don't worry about the difference.

Now 357 is a whole different story.
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Old February 5, 2013, 08:52 AM   #8
donkee
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My 9mm loads for pistol clock at about 1100 fps when shot through the CZ and Hi-Power.

Running through the UZI with the anteater, michigan legal, and weird looking barrel they clock about 1400 fps.

I am using 124 fmj. No issues at all.

I would use 115g or 147g and not think anything about it.

Just go out and shoot and have fun.
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:22 AM   #9
jonnyc
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My HP995 does particularly like Prvi 147gr. JHPs.
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Old February 5, 2013, 11:50 AM   #10
seanc
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I wouldn't use Prvi 9mm for anything except plinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKbzhyBo-PM
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Old February 5, 2013, 04:47 PM   #11
DMK
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Here's the questions you need to ask yourself:

Why are you shooting 9mm in a carbine?

To get the most velocity out of the round? 115gr will be faster.

To get the most distance out of the round? 115gr will shoot flatter.

To get the most accuracy out of the round? Try a few different weights and brands to see what shoots the best in your gun. In my guns chambered in the same calibers, one gun often 'prefers' a different ammo brand or bullet weight to another brand or bullet weight.
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Old February 5, 2013, 06:46 PM   #12
idek
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http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

Based on this website, a velocity increase between 150 and 200 fps seems typical when going from a pistol to a carbine. Not a huge difference, but I think possible over-expansion is a valid concern. Something that's designed to expand at 1200 fps possibly could fragment at 1400 (in some of my own tests shooting into water, I've had hollow points act like frangible bullets). My hunch is that heavier, slower bullets might perform more reliably at different velocities, but as others have said, testing things for yourself might be a good idea.
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Old February 13, 2013, 03:47 PM   #13
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I have two 9mm carbines. One is the Beretta Storm carbine and the other is an MP5. Both with rifle length barrels.
The Beretta is by far the most accurate and other than Remington Green box the only thing I shoot is hand loaded Lead. Under 6 inch groups are easy at 100 yards. The bullets I use Penn bullets 120 GR Truncated Cone. I use his premium grade which in 44 magnums I have pushed up to 1900 in a rifle. The most accurate is with a 231 load and has been croned at 1300.

I have tried 147 Gr from the same manufacture which worked well in a handgun but accuracy suffered in the carbine.

Why are you shooting 9mm in a carbine?
Because they are cheep to shoot (9mm reloads are under 3 cents per). Good practice rounds since you can shoot them all day because they are cheep. But the number one reason is that they are fun.
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Old February 13, 2013, 05:57 PM   #14
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As somebody who has spent quite a lot of time researching how far the 9mm can be pushed, I totally understand the reasoning behind your question. The fact is that the 9mm CAN be pushed much further than most people realize by handloading and using a rifle length barrel. As is usual with cases of limited capacity, it is best to use lighter bullets when trying to make the most of slower powders, and in single-shot rifle, light bullets can break 2000fps without pressure signs.

However, in a semi-auto the question is a bit different, especially when using factory ammo. In general, though, the recommendation to stay away from the heavier bullets stands IF you're trying to milk the barrel for all the muzzle energy you can. There are exceptions, but generally speaking the 147 grain bullets will not benefit much from the extra length. This makes sense when you consider that most of them are designed to remain subsonic for use with suppressors. +P varieties may violate this general rule. Since neither the 124 or 115 grain loads are subsonic, they are generally loaded with powders that allow more acceleration in a longer barrel. If it were me, I would see which of the two weights my gun shoots most accurately at the ranges I'm concerned with, and shoot those. The effective range of the 9mm carbine is longer than most give it credit for, but no really long enough for the slightly higher ballistic coefficient of the 124 grain bullet to matter. They both have enough free case capacity to allow powder loads which can take advantage of the extra barrel while still cycling the bolt correctly.
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