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Old January 28, 2013, 10:31 PM   #1
deerslayer303
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What have I stumbled upon?

I got this OLD Lyman kit with a Jungle Carbine I bought today. I've never seen one of these, but it looks old and its all there. The instructions are there so I just may give it a whirl. This is a kit to cast the bullet, size it and load the case. I haven't read the instructions yet. See the C&R Section if you want to see the rifle.

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Old January 28, 2013, 10:41 PM   #2
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Awesome find. Have fun.
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Old January 29, 2013, 09:39 AM   #3
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Just the old Lyman handloader with mould. Gazillions of them made and sold. Finding all the parts still in original box is, however, pretty unusual. I see the handloaders at flea markets and antique shops kicking around everywhere.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:38 PM   #4
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Nice find! You're having a good week I see!
IIRC you can also resize fired brass & reload with jacketed bullets using just the press & dies from that kit.
Do check powder charges if you do this however, usually jacketed & cast loads have different powder needs & it's risky to swap them out at random.
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Old January 29, 2013, 06:03 PM   #5
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Lyman 310 tong tool

It's similar in concept with the lee basic loader. Everything is done by hand, no press needed . The dies neck size only, so eventually you might need a FL sizer in a press to bump the shoulder back enough to allow chambering.

Powder, primers, some lead and a melting pot would provide ammo on a wilderness hunt with a big enough campfire. Ot you could load jacketed bullets as well.
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Old January 29, 2013, 09:15 PM   #6
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I used some oooo steel wool and knocked off the very light surface rust that was on the mold. I then put all the pieces in a gallon freezer bag and they are all soaking in Kroil right now. My next question is, Do I actually USE this set? The tool (hand press) is Aluminum the rest is steel.
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Old January 30, 2013, 08:37 AM   #7
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I cant think of a single reason why you shouldn't use the stuff.
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Old January 30, 2013, 10:33 AM   #8
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I'm not sure soaking the mold in Kroil is a good ideaThe cast iron mold blocks may be a bit porous,and generally you want to degrease molds before casting.I am no expert,but oil contamination may cause quality problems till it cooks off.

As I recall,one small issue may crop up with the tong tool.Priming.Long ago primers were domed instead of flat.Old primer punches were cupped to match.As I recall,the cupped punch would mark the primers.I suggest sending a pic of your outfit to Lyman.Maybe they have a flat priming punch'

You can always use a seperate hand priming tool.I miss those old Lee pot metal priming tools with no tray,and screw in shelholders.

Nice pic!
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
My next question is, Do I actually USE this set? The tool (hand press) is Aluminum the rest is steel.
No, not at all. But the thing is you COULD!

If it were me I definitely WOULD! Why? Because it's a prime example of how our forefathers did things. Kind of a nostalgia thing. That tool flat out works! Clumsy and slow, it will still make shootable rounds. The only thing I did not see in that kit is some sort of bullet lube. If you were to use it, then get a bottle of the Lee liquid alox lube.

You don't say whether you load for other calibers, but if you have a scale, you could determine what powder charge that dipper throws. The instructions probably tell you, but it's age means the powder they specify may not be made anymore. I'd look up loads using H- OR IMR-4895, then see if that dipper is close to the load using 4895.

Oh, and is that carbine 303 brit, or 30-06?
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Old January 30, 2013, 02:49 PM   #10
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Oh, and is that carbine 303 brit, or 30-06?
It is chambered in .303 British, and the set is for loading that cartridge as well. And no I don't reload anymore.....yet. When I relocated to TN I sold all my equipment to make the move easier, dumb thing to do really. Now I mainly just cast round ball and Conicals for my Muzzleloaders. But I will give this kit a whirl. Gotta find some info on a load for these lead bullets in .303 Brit seeing as how the info in that kit is date June 1959.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:08 PM   #11
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Deerslayer I would suggest Trail Boss for powder. It works well with cast lead, and is the cleanest shooting powder you will ever use. I use it in several calibers. Using it for the carbine will make shooting it fun, and pleasureable. No shoulder beating, and fiarly quiet to shoot.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:18 PM   #12
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GREAT find! A complete "Nutcracker" set. Haven't seen a complete one in years.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:20 PM   #13
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Oh, and is that carbine 303 brit, or 30-06?
AFAIK the Lee-Enfield was never made in 30-06, maybe you're thinking of the "American Enfield" M1917?
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Old January 31, 2013, 01:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and is that carbine 303 brit, or 30-06?
AFAIK the Lee-Enfield was never made in 30-06, maybe you're thinking of the "American Enfield" M1917?
That shows how much I know about military rifles. No matter, there's plenty of info for cast boolits in rifle. Does the destructions say what the cast weight "should be" from that mold?
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Old January 31, 2013, 10:54 AM   #15
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^^ The data is as follows. .303 Brit. Bullet number: 311299, Bullet gr. wt: 205, Bullet diameter: .313, Powder: DuPont 4198, Charge: 30 grains, Primer: Large rifle.
I doubt that powder is still available. But someone in the past wrote this in the column of that page, 4895-32-303 (Hodgdon)

With these numbers what charge of Trail boss should I try. I only have "pure lead" on hand so I'll have to mix some tin in it. And I'm not sure if this mold is a gas check bullet.
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Old January 31, 2013, 01:05 PM   #16
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Holy mackerel I actually have a reloading manual old enough to list that bullet (the 311299). Its the "Lyman 42nd edition reloaders handbook" if you want to try & find one. Unfortunately it doesn't list charge weights for that powder though. It does say:
"Similar to 3031, but with a slightly faster burning rate. Works in medium power cases, best with lighter jacketed bullets"


Here's what I found:
34~38 Gr of IMR4895 is the min/max for a 215Gr bullet so it probably a safe minimum for the bullets as long as you cast them good & hard.

35gr was listed as a good cast load also.
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Old January 31, 2013, 03:42 PM   #17
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Good, some data! Bothe 4895 AND 4198 are still made. And they're very close to the same burning rate. That silver tube with the handle at an angle is the powder dipper. You would pour some of either powder in a cup, then dip/scoop the dipper in it, then strike the top off flush. I don't see a funnel in that kit, so you'd have to somehow pour the powder in the primed-sized case.

A quick check in my Lyman third edition cast bullet handbook lists the 311299 as a gas checked bullet. I don't know just how the bullet sizer on that nutcracker/tong tool works, but it should be able to apply a gas check at the same time as you size/lube the bullet.

All the loads in the cast bullet manual call for shotgun type powders. The reason is; they wanted to keep the velocities down so there would be less leading. Max velocity listed is 1515 fps.

I searched the cast boolits forum in the mil-surp category, then narrowed the search to 303 loads. Not much info, as most use the shotgun powders, some use alliant 2400.

I'm a member of loadData.com, as such I have access to a wide assortment of specialty loads. I found some that use winchester 748 and 760 for loads in the 2,000 fps range.

Here's the method for figuring a trail boss load for any cartridge.\;

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20B...oads%20R&P.pdf

That might be where you want to look for loads for use with those cast boolits. You CAN shoot those without a gas check(GC). Accuracy is sometimes not as good as with the GC

As for adding tin to your pure lead, tin doe not harden lead much. What it does do is make the lead flow better, giving better fill-out and lets it melt at lower temps. What you need to REALLY harden it is antimony. In combination with tin, the lead is harder. Antimony is present in magnum shot, linotype, and wheel weights. Actually straight wheel weights is very good for casting rifle.
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Old January 31, 2013, 05:51 PM   #18
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Snuffy you forgot to mention that plumbers silver solder has antiomony. It is 95% tin 5% antimony. I used some to harden some soft lead from wheel weights. It worked ok. Melt temp went down to about 700 degrees, and fill out was good. I now have a steady supply of wheel weights from a friend so I use the clamp on. I save the soft lead for my cap and ball revolvers.
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Old January 31, 2013, 05:54 PM   #19
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Thank you for all the info guys. Its most appreciated. I'll use the info you guys posted and load up some of these.
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Old February 1, 2013, 08:59 AM   #20
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I've been looking for a complete one of those in either .38 special or .44 special for years.
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Old February 1, 2013, 05:02 PM   #21
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Mike I'll keep an eye out. Especially when the Hwy 127 sale comes around again. If I see one in those calibers, I will get it fer ya!
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Old February 2, 2013, 09:48 AM   #22
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If you find another one in .303...........
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Old February 2, 2013, 03:04 PM   #23
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I'm still tossing around selling the 310 set. Just unsure yet. I have a Basic Lee loader that I have been using for quite a long time to produce my .303 ammo. I at lease have to try it out first.
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Old February 3, 2013, 01:21 AM   #24
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If you can find a complete one, Deerslayer, I will be more than happy to take it off your hands.

As long as I'm not going to have to do the O Henry thing and sell the guns so I can afford the loading gear...
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:28 PM   #25
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Oh no, Thats what this place is for right? Helping out your fellow enthusiast. If I can find one at a reasonable price, then you just simply reimburse. You run across all kinds of gun stuff at that 127 sale. Its basically a yard sale that runs from Alabama to Ohio.
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